Russian invasion of Ukraine

[ChicagoBlue]

Well if the cap fits as they say, and you certainly sound like a MAGA Trump supporter, with your, we are bigger and better than you guys narrative bull shit!

Don’t let your emotions get in the way of public writing, especially when it does you no justice.

I’m neither a cap wearing Trumper (funny stuff, but it only highlights your cluelessness on your Trumper catch all) nor an assertor of America as “bigger and better.” Alas, when it comes to NATO, I gave the facts and you appear to question them as “narrative bullshit,” which is almost definitive Trumper behavior!

How’s that cap fitting? Red looks good on you!

By the way, it’s up to you, whether you waste your time reading and commenting, not me! Not the sharpest tool in the box are we?

Never claimed to be, but for comparative purposes, I fancy my chances in this exchange.

Finally I suggest if your (see your above tool comment for comedic value) a little sensitive to people pointing out your own country's isolationism, and there have been plenty of examples of it over the decades, perhaps you should avoid this thread or put me and others on ignore.

I enjoy reading all perspectives, but reserve the right to point out fallacy and ignorance as they crop up. You’re keeping me busy today!

“My country’s isolationism” doesn’t exist, except in the mind of someone parroting Trumpspeak and ignoring the reality of the largest Navy and Air Force in the world to protect a landmass that hasn’t been attacked in earnest for centuries. Whats that about?!

Seeing as you brought it up, perhaps you could regale us with the “plenty of examples of (isolationism) over the years.” While you’re at it, tell me all the good stuff Europe has done in this arena, as they’ve been dragged, kicking and screaming, to throw a few actual boots on the ground at world events…or are we supposed kow tow to Europe forever for invoking Article 5 after 9/11? How’s that working out domestically in the UK these days?

 

[Citizen Mike]

Spot on. We simply can’t rely upon the US anymore. Anyone who cannot appreciate this is completely deluded.

We voted to leave the EU, and what’s done is done, but putting economic and political arguments to one side, Europe must now pull together militarily if we are to deter and possibly repel this threat. Again, anyone who cannot appreciate the nature of the threat we face from Russia is completely deluded. A menacing and obstructive regime has descended into one characterised by insanity consumed by paranoia and evil. The arguments about NATO expansion to the east have been overwhelmed with what Russia has become since the invasion two years ago.

This will mean difficult decisions and sacrifices, including financial ones. It will mean higher taxation and loss of some things we have taken for granted.

Nothing last forever, and the knowledge (or possibly belief) that the US would come to our aid if we needed her hold little or no water any more. They will continue further on this path to isolation in the years ahead, whoever wins in November. They will have their own internal wars to wage, I fear.

Europe is on its own, and must wake up to the threat it now faces, and act together to defend itself.

Tax is already high so nobody is going to vote for higher taxes. People are also struggling with the cost of living so they are not going to vote for a reduction in benefits. Government debt has spiralled because of the pandemic and cost of energy so the Country can ill afford a war. People are selfish and will see it as a eastern European war.
So I don't think we will increase spending to appropriate levels until it is too late , just like world war two

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Yeah?

Well I ain't one of them. Here's an idea, instead of collectively shitting on the nation, call out the poster for their ignorance. Otherwise you're no better.

Merely responding to the text presented.

If you feel like it doesn’t apply to you, drive on by. If you wish to engage, go for it.

I’ve tried to provide facts. Feel free to provide your own in refutation, otherwise it’s all puffery and angst.

However, the argument “Hey, don’t forget where City are located!” is a tad dilute and flavorless. I was born and raised in England. I visit frequently, and Europe, too. I see, hear, and feel how it is, and still have my family there to fill in the spaces.

I haven’t said anything about theUK that hasn’t already been said by others here, but it seems raising it as a comparison has irked you. That’s on you. As I said, ignore as needed.

 

[Metal Biker]

Merely responding to the text presented.

If you feel like it doesn’t apply to you, drive on by. If you wish to engage, go for it.

I’ve tried to provide facts. Feel free to provide your own in refutation, otherwise it’s all puffery and angst.

So you want to continue to be "that person".

Okay boo, you do you.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

I know wrong subject,But that disability malarkey is a laugh. They park in the disable spots go into the gym row,bike and a few miles on the treadmill Its something any government cant alter do to the outrage of the real disabled people..

I park in the disabled spots, I have a blue badge, I go to the gym , lift weights, run on the treadmill and row. Just because people go to the gym and you can't see their disability does not mean they do not have one.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

This will allow the IDF to kill an awfull lot more Gaza civilians!

Sadly that is true Ukraine needs those weapons we didn’t just promise to protect Israel we promised to protect Ukraine if they gave up their Nuclear weapons.

Incidentally it was Thatcher that paid the final instalment of money we owed the US for WW 2 and we have our own Nuclear submarine the US didn’t provide us with those as a deterrent, we built it I think Faslane on the Clyde

 

[west didsblue]

While I appreciate both the compliment and you telling me what I was and was not doing, while the phraseology might sound like it came out of Trump’s mouth, I gave you the FACTS. Both in GDP percentage terms and raw cash, the USA has propped up NATO for an age.

I was only pointing out what you actually posted which was “Do you mean like funding NATO for the last half century”. That’s not really open to much interpretation but I’ll leave it there because I now know what you meant rather than what you said.

 

[Irwell]

Incidentally it was Thatcher that paid the final instalment of money we owed the US for WW 2 and we have our own Nuclear submarine the US didn’t provide us with those as a deterrent, we built it I think Faslane on the Clyde

Not only did we build our own, but the US refused to let us have the technology we helped them develop, leaving us to develop the warheads on our own too. When we had then developed it on our own they offered to start providing a delivery mechanism for our new deterrent. Guess what position we're in now? The submarines work, the warheads work (or did on last test) but the delivery mechanism they offered has repeatedly failed during tests.

 

[mosssideblue]

Not only did we build our own, but the US refused to let us have the technology we helped them develop, leaving us to develop the warheads on our own too. When we had then developed it on our own they offered to start providing a delivery mechanism for our new deterrent. Guess what position we're in now? The submarines work, the warheads work (or did on last test) but the delivery mechanism they offered has repeatedly failed during tests.

What technology are you alluding to and when was the last warhead test?

 

[Elbow beards]

Sadly that is true Ukraine needs those weapons we didn’t just promise to protect Israel we promised to protect Ukraine if they gave up their Nuclear weapons.

Incidentally it was Thatcher that paid the final instalment of money we owed the US for WW 2 and we have our own Nuclear submarine the US didn’t provide us with those as a deterrent, we built it I think Faslane on the Clyde

There's a documentary on Netflix about this.
They signed a 'commitment' to protect Ukraine, not a 'promise' Just that one word change has made all the difference.
The one mistake they made when they agreed to get rid of their nukes.