Russian invasion of Ukraine

How’s everyone’s anxiety right now? Mine sky high I took a few hours off from reading the forum but I got that butterfly feeling in my stomach constantly.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a calamitous humanitarian disaster.

Ironically, there's a silver lining. For once, in the Trump era, there seems to be nominal agreement among the Left and the Right that the invasion is a unwarranted land-grab promulgated by an ex-KGB psychopath; Trump et. all aren't in line with this thinking of course but maybe 1/2 or more of Republicans are.
 
There's little evidence to suggest that's true.

For a start, it's very clear he has completely misjudged the difficulty militarily and also underestimated the coherence and severity of the western response.

And second, Ukraine is a very different place to Moldova or Georgia. Neither were ever part of Russia (although they were both under the control of the USSR at various points of course). There is an argument - however misguided - that Ukraine's "natural" cultural home is to be part of Russia. You cannot say that of either of the above.

EDIT: Not sure about Georgia, maybe they were part of Russia if we go back far enough. Either way, it's a different situation compared to Ukraine.
I don't think it will happen because he has bitten off more than he can chew with Ukraine, but if Ukraine had gone according to his plan there are a lot of similarities with those two countries. Georgia has two Russian backed separatist areas (Abkhazia and South Ossetia) and Moldova has one (Transnistria). Compared to Ukraine it would be relatively easy, so if Ukraine had gone well for him and the west had not united against him then I have little doubt they would be next. Stalin was from Georgia so I would imagine it is seen as Russian enough for Putin. As I say, after the experience with Ukraine however it goes from now on, I suspect it won't happen.
 
How’s everyone’s anxiety right now? Mine sky high I took a few hours off from reading the forum but I got that butterfly feeling in my stomach constantly.
Honestly I am with you. Through the pandemic and political fuckery over here and all the other things over the past few years I've been a mix of emotions from angry and annoyed to concerned for others but never nervous. The past week has changed that. I don't know why. Everything else just seems trivial.
 
What the fuck has it got to do with Russia that NATO expands? Do you ever hear Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, or Austria saying they “will not accept” more countries wanting to join NATO?

early 00s, the USA and UK were trying to forge friendly ties with Putin and were even discussing the possibility of Russia joining NATO themselves at one point.

Have you read the link to the open door declaration for Georgia and Ukraine from that article?

It says, “At the Bucharest Summit, NATO Allies welcomed Ukraine's and Georgia's Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership and agreed that these countries will become members of NATO... Allies made clear that they support Georgia's and Ukraine's applications for MAP [Membership Action Plan]”

Georgia and Ukraine applied to join NATO. NATO have not been meddling in their elections, putting NATO puppets in power in their governments, have not bribed or forced or threatened these countries, have not even been the ones to open the discussions.

View attachment 37588
It’s what the people of Ukraine want.

Even ethnic Russians in the Donbas region aren’t happy with this invasion


Even Russians in Russia aren’t happy with this invasion

It’s not NATO’s fault that Russia are frightening their neighbours into wanting to join NATO. That’s solely Russia’s fault.

It’s not NATO’s fault that Russia are paranoid of having NATO on their borders. Especially when that argument doesn’t wash since NATO has bordered the Soviet Union or Russia since it’s inception:
During the Cold War, West Germany, Italy, and Norway bordered the USSR.
After the fall of USSR, Lithuania and Poland joined NATO which border Kaliningrad; and Latvia and Estonia joined NATO which border Russia proper.

NATO has existed and been expanding longer than modern Russia has existed, never mind how long Putin has been in power. Who is he to tell an alliance that’s existed for 51 years longer than he’s been in power that he doesn’t want counties to join them?

Plus if Russia is invading Ukraine - with Putin not even recognising Ukraine’s sovereignty, and thinks the Bolsheviks made up Ukraine and “robbed Russia” of the land where Ukraine stands - it will push Russia into having more borders with NATO. So why’s he moaning about NATO moving into having more borders with Russia?

It’s such a flimsy argument to say that it’s got anything to do with NATO that Russia have invaded. That’s the excuse they’re using for Russian imperialist expansion!

I can’t even be arsed reading all that, got to the meddling in elections but.

I’ll leave this here for you to educate yourself.



See you on the match day thread.
 
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a calamitous humanitarian disaster.

Ironically, there's a silver lining. For once, in the Trump era, there seems to be nominal agreement among the Left and the Right that the invasion is a unwarranted land-grab promulgated by an ex-KGB psychopath; Trump et. all aren't in line with this thinking of course but maybe 1/2 or more of Republicans are.
From this side of the pond, all I've seen (approx) is Trump arse lickers disputing what's happening in Ukraine and cheering Putin on for being a tough guy against terrorists...
 
How’s everyone’s anxiety right now? Mine sky high I took a few hours off from reading the forum but I got that butterfly feeling in my stomach constantly.

None, although there has been some panic buying of Easter eggs which is getting my anxiety levels up in case we run out
 
Honestly I am with you. Through the pandemic and political fuckery over here and all the other things over the past few years I've been a mix of emotions from angry and annoyed to concerned for others but never nervous. The past week has changed that. I don't know why. Everything else just seems trivial.
Definitely with you there, what a terrible last few years I’m agonising at how one prick can be a threat to humanity it’s frightening tbh.
 

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