Sacking Mancini... was there even a choice?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps it's just a question of picking up the pieces and gathering the players together and working through a pre-season together to get it all back.

I think people are worrying too much. Obviously the owners/board felt Mancini was a problem and had to be removed. Now that he has been removed then the expectation of a happier, more stable camp is what we should look forward to.

Being a total dick to your players isn't the only way to motivate them so I've no fears of the new guy not being able to get what Mancini got out of the players. If anything I think we will see more out of the squad overall than we did under Roberto. It's definitely an exciting time rather than a worrying one - for me anyway.

 

[crystal_mais]

The biggest problem we have is. We have tried to buy too many world class players and then tried to shove them into the team.

All world class players have big egos - add that to an egotistical stubborn confrontational manager = recipe for disaster when things are not going well.

I think the players need to be give a dressing down around this episode. We should not let them get away with as have some at Chelsea. If that means some of them paying the price by being shipped out then so be it.

That should set a precedent for future conduct of manager and players.

The reason Ferguson, Moyes, Wenger et al have such longevity is the core of the team (85-90%) have all been team players, workers (not world beaters) etc and kept his dressing room control. Ferguson & Wenger only added the odd ego into their teams. It made it easier when he needed to get rid if they stepped out of line. But these guys were/are excellent man managers - everything kept in house

Lets look forward to the future. I'd rather build a team not fill it with all Cat A players and try and get it to work

 

[Marvin]

Perhaps it's just a question of picking up the pieces and gathering the players together and working through a pre-season together to get it all back.

I think people are worrying too much. Obviously the owners/board felt Mancini was a problem and had to be removed. Now that he has been removed then the expectation of a happier, more stable camp is what we should look forward to.

Being a total dick to your players isn't the only way to motivate them so I've no fears of the new guy not being able to get what Mancini got out of the players. If anything I think we will see more out of the squad overall than we did under Roberto. It's definitely an exciting time rather than a worrying one - for me anyway.

Good. I want to hear rational explanations of where we are and what's missing from our game.

Maybe we underestimate the mental effect on the players of losing a manager and a Cup Final. Maybe what I thought I saw as arrogant players who don't are are actually mentally exhausted players who have nothing left in the tank.

 

[Blue2112]

I can't for one second see the British press allowing Pellegrini a season to tinker and not win anything before the comparisons to Mancini's success's are aired. For the first time ever I almost walked out before yesterdays lap of honour but I didn't because I love this club and yet it was pitiful clapping players who looked like they wanted to be on a beach in Dubai somewhere and fuck that stupid banner off in future thanking us for our support. We all know what the lap of honour is about.

Mancini was a gonner this season even if he'd have won a double because he wouldn't conform to the 'holistic' approach which I keep reading will bring untold rewards to the club down the years. Anything else I read is merely just being used as leverage to substantiate the decision. If it's so fucking easy as that why isn't everybody else doing it?

The Rags backed Fergie all the way when he had problems with player's in his early years. They let him sort it out and win the battles and it's constantly brought up how every player that goes there knows he's the boss. I guess Mancini wanted to rule here and who knows in time maybe he would have mellowed somewhat but we'll never know.

So on we go but it does concern me that I had a vision of City's boardroom being an ultra professional group of people but after the developments and smear campaigns this past week I seriously have to worry. It's very easy to say these people know what they're doing, so far I'm yet to be convinced. Yesterday like in the cup final I looked at them all stood in line - The Men and Women Stood In Black Suits looking all business like as if they were attending some fucking funeral all serious like. Too much politics, cloak and dagger stuff for me and it just looks like a personal battle between them all for power.

 

[argyle]

Players spitting there dummy out got Bobby the sack. What a joke. It went under the radar that most of the fans had done one me included for the lap of honer. No honer in this lot I'm sorry. When players have this much power it's wrong.

I heard Noel Gallagher say "if we need to get someone in to pamper the players then so be it, it's there club". Errrr sorry I thought it was our club, another one out of touch.

No manager over 60 has ever lasted more than one year at a big European club fact. Well be luck to get forth next year.

Club sold it's soul. The sooner fan see that we don't matter anymore then and only then can they see whats going on. Just loot at the evening news with the disabled fan.

Someone start FC City.

Is the above poster Colin Schindler or a rag?

 

[GaudinoMotors]

I can't for one second see the British press allowing Pellegrini a season to tinker and not win anything before the comparisons to Mancini's success's are aired. For the first time ever I almost walked out before yesterdays lap of honour but I didn't because I love this club and yet it was pitiful clapping players who looked like they wanted to be on a beach in Dubai somewhere and fuck that stupid banner off in future thanking us for our support. We all know what the lap of honour is about.

Mancini was a gonner this season even if he'd have won a double because he wouldn't conform to the 'holistic' approach which I keep reading will bring untold rewards to the club down the years. If it's so fucking easy as that why isn't everybody else doing it?

The Rags backed Fergie all the way when he had problems with player's in his early years. They let him sort it out and win the battles and it's constantly brought up how every player that goes there knows he's the boss. I guess Mancini wanted to rule here and who knows in time maybe he would have mellowed somewhat but we'll never know.

So on we go but it does concern me that I had a vision of City's boardroom being an ultra professional group of people but after the developments and smear campaigns this past week I seriously have to worry. It's very easy to say these people know what they're doing, so far I'm yet to be convinced. Yesterday like in the cup final I looked at them all stood in line - The Men and Women Stood In Black Suits looking all business like as if they were attending some fucking funeral all serious like. Too much politics, cloak and dagger stuff for me and it just looks like a personal battle between them all for power.

I'm actually nostalgic for the simplified management structure where we had an openly enthusiastic CEO who clearly wanted to make City great and understood what the fans wanted. The current politburo doesn't inspire confidence or even communicate their intentions yet.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't for one second see the British press allowing Pellegrini a season to tinker and not win anything before the comparisons to Mancini's success's are aired. For the first time ever I almost walked out before yesterdays lap of honour but I didn't because I love this club and yet it was pitiful clapping players who looked like they wanted to be on a beach in Dubai somewhere and fuck that stupid banner off in future thanking us for our support. We all know what the lap of honour is about.

Mancini was a gonner this season even if he'd have won a double because he wouldn't conform to the 'holistic' approach which I keep reading will bring untold rewards to the club down the years. Anything else I read is merely just being used as leverage to substantiate the decision. If it's so fucking easy as that why isn't everybody else doing it?

The Rags backed Fergie all the way when he had problems with player's in his early years. They let him sort it out and win the battles and it's constantly brought up how every player that goes there knows he's the boss. I guess Mancini wanted to rule here and who knows in time maybe he would have mellowed somewhat but we'll never know.

So on we go but it does concern me that I had a vision of City's boardroom being an ultra professional group of people but after the developments and smear campaigns this past week I seriously have to worry. It's very easy to say these people know what they're doing, so far I'm yet to be convinced. Yesterday like in the cup final I looked at them all stood in line - The Men and Women Stood In Black Suits looking all business like as if they were attending some fucking funeral all serious like. Too much politics, cloak and dagger stuff for me and it just looks like a personal battle between them all for power.

Josh, c'mon don't you think that's a bit naive and bit selective in how you view what's gone on. The use of the phrase "holistic approach" was simply a polite way of saying "we want a manager who the players actually want to work with, and who wants to work under the organisational structure we're implementing".

Regarding the politics at the club, we needed political power and influence at the highest level of football administration so that we have a bigger voice at UEFA. We also needed a director of football to ensure that the mistakes of previous regimes' with regards to player acquisition are not made again. Of course within the microcosm that is the week just gone it's easy to see them as faceless bureaucrats on a power trip, but the reality is quite far removed from that and the long term benefits of having Ferran and Txiki will dwarf your current concerns about things being too political.

The fact is that the Mancini situation was one that it was always going to be tricky for the owners to extricate themselves from without pissing a lot of supporters off. I'm sure they didn't set out for us to lose the FA cup or have quite the week we've had, but equally I'm sure that they will have been prepared for what's happened and they'll see it as short term pain for long term gain.

 

[BobKowalski]

I can't for one second see the British press allowing Pellegrini a season to tinker and not win anything before the comparisons to Mancini's success's are aired. For the first time ever I almost walked out before yesterdays lap of honour but I didn't because I love this club and yet it was pitiful clapping players who looked like they wanted to be on a beach in Dubai somewhere and fuck that stupid banner off in future thanking us for our support. We all know what the lap of honour is about.

Mancini was a gonner this season even if he'd have won a double because he wouldn't conform to the 'holistic' approach which I keep reading will bring untold rewards to the club down the years. If it's so fucking easy as that why isn't everybody else doing it?

The Rags backed Fergie all the way when he had problems with player's in his early years. They let him sort it out and win the battles and it's constantly brought up how every player that goes there knows he's the boss. I guess Mancini wanted to rule here and who knows in time maybe he would have mellowed somewhat but we'll never know.

So on we go but it does concern me that I had a vision of City's boardroom being an ultra professional group of people but after the developments and smear campaigns this past week I seriously have to worry. It's very easy to say these people know what they're doing, so far I'm yet to be convinced. Yesterday like in the cup final I looked at them all stood in line - The Men and Women Stood In Black Suits looking all business like as if they were attending some fucking funeral all serious like. Too much politics, cloak and dagger stuff for me and it just looks like a personal battle between them all for power.

I'm actually nostalgic for the simplified management structure where we had an openly enthusiastic CEO who clearly wanted to make City great and understood what the fans wanted. The current politburo doesn't inspire confidence or even communicate their intentions yet.

Harsh to say they don't communicate their intentions. There is usually a weekly bulletin in the Spanish media.

 

[BobKowalski]

... I'm sure they didn't set out for us to lose the FA cup or have quite the week we've had, but equally I'm sure that they will have been prepared for what's happened and they'll see it as short term pain for long term gain.

Well thats decent of them. I now feel much better about losing the FA Cup comforted in the knowledge it was for the greater good. Although I would have been much happier actually winning the thing and then waving goodbye to Mancini at season end. Yeah I know I'm a fickle bastard.

 

[Bluemoonbaldboy]

Till players autobiographies hit the book stores in 10-15 years we will never know the full truth. Rumours were going round he was alienating players before the FA Cup win indeed Bellamy confirmed he didn't like the man or his methods. Yet more talk of dressing room discontent have come out since the sacking it really does like the club had zero option but to get rid. Or they faced players asking for moves. Its a strange emotional mix grateful for the success he brought but by all accounts there really wasn't a choice if the rumours are true.

 

[Blue2112]

I can't for one second see the British press allowing Pellegrini a season to tinker and not win anything before the comparisons to Mancini's success's are aired. For the first time ever I almost walked out before yesterdays lap of honour but I didn't because I love this club and yet it was pitiful clapping players who looked like they wanted to be on a beach in Dubai somewhere and fuck that stupid banner off in future thanking us for our support. We all know what the lap of honour is about.

Mancini was a gonna this season even if he'd have won a double because he wouldn't conform to the 'holistic' approach which I keep reading will bring untold rewards to the club down the years. Anything else I read is merely just being used as leverage to substantiate the decision. If it's so fucking easy as that why isn't everybody else doing it?

The Rags backed Fergie all the way when he had problems with player's in his early years. They let him sort it out and win the battles and it's constantly brought up how every player that goes there knows he's the boss. I guess Mancini wanted to rule here and who knows in time maybe he would have mellowed somewhat but we'll never know.

So on we go but it does concern me that I had a vision of City's boardroom being an ultra professional group of people but after the developments and smear campaigns this past week I seriously have to worry. It's very easy to say these people know what they're doing, so far I'm yet to be convinced. Yesterday like in the cup final I looked at them all stood in line - The Men and Women Stood In Black Suits looking all business like as if they were attending some fucking funeral all serious like. Too much politics, cloak and dagger stuff for me and it just looks like a personal battle between them all for power.

Josh, c'mon don't you think that's a bit naive and bit selective in how you view what's gone on. The use of the phrase "holistic approach" was simply a polite way of saying "we want a manager who the players actually want to work with, and who wants to work under the organisational structure we're implementing".

Regarding the politics at the club, we needed political power and influence at the highest level of football administration so that we have a bigger voice at UEFA. We also needed a director of football to ensure that the mistakes of previous regimes' with regards to player acquisition are not made again. Of course within the microcosm that is the week just gone it's easy to see them as faceless bureaucrats on a power trip, but the reality is quite far removed from that and the long term benefits of having Ferran and Txiki will dwarf your current concerns about things being too political.

The fact is that the Mancini situation was one that it was always going to be tricky for the owners to extricate themselves from without pissing a lot of supporters off. I'm sure they didn't set out for us to lose the FA cup or have quite the week we've had, but equally I'm sure that they will have been prepared for what's happened and they'll see it as short term pain for long term gain.

In all honesty Ashan I've read and heard all the stories and a few more and I can't for the life of me find one thing strong enough to hang their hat on that was bad enough for them to sack Mancini. Ok so tell me it's a culmination of things and I can almost accept that but then the club long before should have hauled Mancini in and dressed him down for his continous tirade of public barracking or internal arguements if that was his problem. Maybe they did and he wont change and so they've been left with no other option and this is what we now have. But for the life of me I can't help but think that's all a smokescreen and assisted by a lack of PR to Mancini on purpose and the real truth is it's a simple case of a power struggle between Mancini and Bergiristain and Sorianno and there was only ever going to be one winner.

As for the new organisational structure and approach in all honesty we're all guessing about how it's going to be implemented and run or did I miss the brief they gave? Not one of us really knows the truth because nobody in power has officially spoken.

I can accept the influence they may hold at higher levels etc but again on the face of things it doesn't look like they're being too effective but only time will tell. As for previous mistakes being made by managers there is also every chance that the same mistakes may be made again and again by the new powers that be. There is nothing cast in stone and although they had great success with this approach at Barca with all due respect this is not La Liga and we do not possess a Xavi, Iniesta or Messi and whilst that may be the ultimate goal achieving it may be far more difficult than any of us can imagine.

Yes Mancini was a tricky one for the owners and like I said the decision was taken months ago and nothing would have saved him. If he'd have won more silverware then the club would have had to batten down the hatches and weather the inevitable shitstorm, which they still got to a point, albeit it's now
blown by it's worse and in truth there is little damage remaining. A job well done one could say!

 

[Anonymous]

Well thats decent of them. I now feel much better about losing the FA Cup comforted in the knowledge it was for the greater good. Although I would have been much happier actually winning the thing and then waving goodbye to Mancini at season end. Yeah I know I'm a fickle bastard.

Well considering they didn't coach the team, prepare them for the match, or indeed take the field themselves, contorting yourself into all sorts of weird shapes to try and make it Spain's fault we lost the FA Cup is a bit desperate.

 

[Marvin]

we'll never know

What I want to know is whether the new manager can pick up from where we left off in April. And we wont know that until next season, but a good guide will be if Silva, Aguero and Kompany are still on board

Assuming the appointment of Pellegrini is on track, it would be good if the role of manager and Football Director could be spelled out when the appointment is made

 

[Anonymous]

In all honesty Ashan I've read and heard all the stories and a few more and I can't for the life of me find one thing strong enough to hang their hat on that was bad enough for them to sack Mancini. Ok so tell me it's a culmination of things and I can almost accept that but then the club long before should have hauled Mancini in and dressed him down for his continous tirade of public barracking or internal arguements if that was his problem. Maybe they did and he wont change and so they've been left with no other option and this is what we now have. But for the life of me I can't help but think it's a power struggle between Mancini and Bergiristain and Sorianno and there was only ever going to be one winner.

It was less a power struggle and more a case of chalk and cheese in terms of working methods and philosophies. Obviously the academy is incredibly important to the club and there is a desire to try and meet FFP. To do this we can't have a constant high turn over of players. It's been reported in a few places that when Mancini was given his new 5 year contract last summer he was specifically asked by Khaldoun to tone down his attitude and to give the players and the staff at City a bit of a break from the constant negative feedback he publicly sends their way. Clearly he didn't which made his relationship in the first place, with AD and with the players problematic. I think whether he could work with Ferran and Txiki to some extent became secondary.

As for the new organisational structure and approach in all honesty we're all guessing about how it's going to be implemented and run or did I miss the brief they gave? Not one of us really knows the truth because nobody in power has officially spoken.

The structure IMO will be the classic continental DoF/Coach model rather than the manager model we are obsessed with in Britain. To be fair to Ferran and Txiki they have only been at the club less than 12 months so maybe we should allow them this summer at least before we judge their abilities as administrators. It's worth pointing out people were absolutely apoplectic with Marwood last summer for apparently fucking up the transfer window, and Begiristain's appointment was heralded.

I can accept the influence they may hold at higher levels etc but again on the face of things it doesn't look like they're being too effective but only time will tell. As for previous mistakes being made by managers there is also every chance that the same mistakes may be made again and again by the new powers that be. There is nothing cast in stone and although they had great success with this approach at Barca with all due respect this is not La Liga and we do not possess a Xavi, Iniesta or Messi and whilst that may be the ultimate goal achieving it may be far more difficult than any of us can imagine.

Personally I don't think there's any chance two men as experienced as the two Spaniards are going to be so naive as to think they can recreate what they did at Barcelona at City. You're right we don't have xavi, Iniesta, and Messi, but we do have our own world class players as a building platform for the two men.

I take your point regarding mistakes in player acquisition because it's true that everyone makes mistakes. I think the concern has been that Hughes bought a load of players who Mancini discarded, and Mancini bought a load of players who he then wanted to discard. By going down the DoF/Coach model you remove that problem because people coming into the job in years to come will understand an accept the structure. Ironically enough, I suspect that Mancini and Marwood's antipathy for each other was one of the catalysts for the need to bring Txiki in.

Yes Mancini was a tricky one for the owners and like I said the decision was taken months ago and nothing would have saved him. If he'd have won more silverware then the club would have had to batten down the hatches and weather the inevitable shitstorm, which they still got to a point, albeit it's now
blown by it's worse and in truth there is little damage remaining. A job well done one could say!

It's a shit analogy but I think Mancini was a plaster which needed removing and no matter how subtlely the club tried to do it, it was always going to hurt a little. As you say though, in the end it will all blow over. The FA Cup is the stick with which we are beating the club by saying we handled the situation badly and therefore we lost. Yet a few months back we were talking about how our squad isn't that good and how Mancini can't be expected to win every game and we don't have a divine right to win every week etc.

 

[levets]

Had he been given his players last august we'd now be sat here with a double under our belt.he'd still be unpopular but he would still be a winner. I'd have taken that.

Popular... Jimmy Frizell was popular

spot on Bill

 

[BringBackSwales]

Had he been given his players last august we'd now be sat here with a double under our belt.he'd still be unpopular but he would still be a winner. I'd have taken that.

Popular... Jimmy Frizell was popular

spot on Bill

yes de niro at least is straight and to the point, which is a breath of fresh air compared to some of the pontificators on here, who waffle on with that tone as if they know something - eh billy?

 

[Anonymous]

Had he been given his players last august we'd now be sat here with a double under our belt.he'd still be unpopular but he would still be a winner. I'd have taken that.

Popular... Jimmy Frizell was popular

spot on Bill

yes de niro at least is straight and to the point, which is a breath of fresh air compared to some of the pontificators on here, who waffle on with that tone as if they know something - eh billy?

Haha. Reminds me of this sketch.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvs2g5Nj0NI[/youtube]

 

[Blue2112]

Whichever side of the managerial roundabout your on it does seem inconceivable that we won't make a success of things....but then this is Manchester City we're talking about. Only time will tell.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Popular... Jimmy Frizell was popular

spot on Bill

yes de niro at least is straight and to the point, which is a breath of fresh air compared to some of the pontificators on here, who waffle on with that tone as if they know something - eh billy?

Haha. Reminds me of this sketch.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvs2g5Nj0NI[/youtube]

Lol!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Whichever side of the managerial roundabout your on it does seem inconceivable that we won't make a success of things....but then this is Manchester City we're talking about. Only time will tell.

Stop worrying Josh. We're in good hands and we're going places. But sometimes you have to take what looks like a step backwards to take two forward.