Sam Allardyce

The media are coming out with all the same shit we heard for Woy when he was appointed. "He's better than he's given credit for" etc etc. This will end the same way.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
None of the world cup winning rugby side are still playing, so the fact they won it is completely irrelevant to the current side and the most recent grand slam before this years one was 2003. England were an abject failure in the recent world cup, worse than the football team in the Euros, yet within months of getting a new manager who knows what he is doing, won the grand slam and we have never won a series in Australia before, even the world cup winning side.

The criticism the cricket team got for sacking Cook on the eve of the world cup, players not having a clue how to respond to the coach who came out with garbled messages and interviews that made little sense, talking about data and stats when the team had just been slaughtered, suddenly the same players under a new coach played with a completely different style and with confidence that was lacking only months before. We went out of the world cup having been beaten by Bangladesh. The side hasnt been in a world cup final since 1992, we were so lowly ranked we nearly had to qualify for the 2006 champions trophy and havent been ranked number 1 in one day cricket for decades. Root is the only player we have who is in the top 10 for either discipline in ODI cricket and it says everything that Anderson is our top ranked bowler despite hardly playing that format over the last 2 years, sad state of affairs because the players are coming from such a low ranking that they are only just appearing near the top Buttler for example isnt in the top 10 due to a shocking world cup but since Bayliss has taken over is one of the most destructive batsmen in the shorter format. The test side peaked to be number 1 however soon tailed off to be 6th, a ranking we are only now recovering from. Anyone describing Lancaster and Moores as anything other than disastrous is being generous.

If your happy with fat Sam then thats for you, but he wouldnt rank in the top 10 managers in the PL let alone the world for me, the FA have settled for mediocrity just because he is English and there are no other Englishmen. Anyone thinking that good management is shouting and ranting at people is living in the dark ages.
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Englandwere an abject failure in the recent world cup, worse than the football team in the Euros,
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NO they weren't... Nowhere near. They won 2 games and would have qualified if they'd taken the 3 points on offer for a draw, rather than trying to win the game v Wales.
 
I'm pretty indifferent to the national team at the best of times, but think Allardyce is worth a shot. He can't do much worse than the other recent incumbents.

Be interesting to see who Sunderland get to replace him, with one eye on our opening game of the season.
 
levets said:
Englandwere an abject failure in the recent world cup, worse than the football team in the Euros,
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NO they weren't... Nowhere near. They won 2 games and would have qualified if they'd taken the 3 points on offer for a draw, rather than trying to win the game v Wales.
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I think getting out of the group stage is better than not and the rugby team were on home soil.
 
if BFS is the best choice by the FA then we (england) are fucked

England are 40 years behind the rest in structure formation identity and style its shocking to see
we have never gone forward since 1966 and still think we are the home of football and have the define right to be in the top level in international football. but how wrong could you be i used to think it was the fault of the premier league and bringing so called superstars of world football. but its not we have had great youth and had some of the best and the so called class of 1992 was made up of 5 or 6 english lads i could even go back to 1986 and man city youth team and 5 or 6 great players and thats only to clubs that had great youth setups

but on england duty they are rolling up and just going through the motions and every single england manager just does not a a clue on how to gel them into a team its like your a striker so score or your a leftback just defend if only it was that easy. structure is the key and if you have a way of playing and know your role's and formation you can pick just about any good player and he will know the role and slot right in. you dont have to have 11 world beaters just team spirit and your half way there

with the talent england have its criminal and watching the euro's and england not having a fucking clue about what is asked of them and mindless setups and formation and not knowing your best 11 just say's it all and whats is happening in training with the coaches and staff

so what about BFS well its still going to be jobs for the boys and agents and if your under a well know agencies just like with the old manager your in
forget structure formation identity and style just turn up and have a 2 week break and everything will be ok
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
None of the world cup winning rugby side are still playing, so the fact they won it is completely irrelevant to the current side and the most recent grand slam before this years one was 2003. England were an abject failure in the recent world cup, worse than the football team in the Euros, yet within months of getting a new manager who knows what he is doing, won the grand slam and we have never won a series in Australia before, even the world cup winning side.

The criticism the cricket team got for sacking Cook on the eve of the world cup, players not having a clue how to respond to the coach who came out with garbled messages and interviews that made little sense, talking about data and stats when the team had just been slaughtered, suddenly the same players under a new coach played with a completely different style and with confidence that was lacking only months before. We went out of the world cup having been beaten by Bangladesh. The side hasnt been in a world cup final since 1992, we were so lowly ranked we nearly had to qualify for the 2006 champions trophy and havent been ranked number 1 in one day cricket for decades. Root is the only player we have who is in the top 10 for either discipline in ODI cricket and it says everything that Anderson is our top ranked bowler despite hardly playing that format over the last 2 years, sad state of affairs because the players are coming from such a low ranking that they are only just appearing near the top Buttler for example isnt in the top 10 due to a shocking world cup but since Bayliss has taken over is one of the most destructive batsmen in the shorter format. The test side peaked to be number 1 however soon tailed off to be 6th, a ranking we are only now recovering from. Anyone describing Lancaster and Moores as anything other than disastrous is being generous.

If your happy with fat Sam then thats for you, but he wouldnt rank in the top 10 managers in the PL let alone the world for me, the FA have settled for mediocrity just because he is English and there are no other Englishmen. Anyone thinking that good management is shouting and ranting at people is living in the dark ages.
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I don't really get your post - lots of picking and choosing of what facts you see as relevant. Big Sam doesn't just shout and rant at people, nor does he live in the dark ages. In fact, he is quite similar to our Australian rugby coach... who shouts and rants quite a lot, and isn't afraid to drag people off if things don't work.

I look at the clubs Sam has worked at and who loves and who hates him. West Ham and Newcastle wanted rid. They're also two clubs that have high ambitions and with fans that think they should be winning titles. To say those fans have often been a little over ambitious is an understatement. Where are Newcastle at the moment? And who is to blame? Potentially the manager that was once manager of England, a highly rated coach that the FA felt "knew" the English way. He showed us otherwise.

Roy Hodgson, very little success, but experienced at International level with a variety of sides. Showed that in qualification but a dinosaur that doesn't understand the modern game.

We've gone for Sven and Capello - good managerial records and things didn't work for them.

Sometimes it isn't the right time for a manager and sometimes the manager is just shit. What Woy didn't have that was a frequency during the management of Sven and Capello was injuries to key players. Owen, Rooney, Beckham, Ferdinand... lots were injured ahead of major tournaments or during them.

Woy had a fully fit squad - it wasn't the best but it was capable of beating all it played. Sam gets results. He's kept numerous teams up and showed improvement when given time. Bolton became extremely effective at getting results. He played to their strengths.

We won't play Spanish style football but our players can't pass so we shouldn't in any case. We've got pace up front and decent centre forwards. We've got Dele Alli who's very mobile in midfield and Dier who's a fantastic defensive midfielder/deep lying playmaker. Defensively we need improving and Sam's going to do that.

If we put a team out with clear tactics we'll already by a million miles better and that's what Sam will do. He'll get England back to the basics and he'll get them used to coping with media pressure.

We might not win anything but you can guarantee the passion will be there and so will a gameplan. That's a million miles better than what we've had in major tournaments under Woy. Sets a good platform for future manager as well. At that stage we might be able to go more purist.
 
supercity88 said:
I don't really get your post - lots of picking and choosing of what facts you see as relevant. Big Sam doesn't just shout and rant at people, nor does he live in the dark ages. In fact, he is quite similar to our Australian rugby coach... who shouts and rants quite a lot, and isn't afraid to drag people off if things don't work.

I look at the clubs Sam has worked at and who loves and who hates him. West Ham and Newcastle wanted rid. They're also two clubs that have high ambitions and with fans that think they should be winning titles. To say those fans have often been a little over ambitious is an understatement. Where are Newcastle at the moment? And who is to blame? Potentially the manager that was once manager of England, a highly rated coach that the FA felt "knew" the English way. He showed us otherwise.

Roy Hodgson, very little success, but experienced at International level with a variety of sides. Showed that in qualification but a dinosaur that doesn't understand the modern game.

We've gone for Sven and Capello - good managerial records and things didn't work for them.

Sometimes it isn't the right time for a manager and sometimes the manager is just shit. What Woy didn't have that was a frequency during the management of Sven and Capello was injuries to key players. Owen, Rooney, Beckham, Ferdinand... lots were injured ahead of major tournaments or during them.

Woy had a fully fit squad - it wasn't the best but it was capable of beating all it played. Sam gets results. He's kept numerous teams up and showed improvement when given time. Bolton became extremely effective at getting results. He played to their strengths.

We won't play Spanish style football but our players can't pass so we shouldn't in any case. We've got pace up front and decent centre forwards. We've got Dele Alli who's very mobile in midfield and Dier who's a fantastic defensive midfielder/deep lying playmaker. Defensively we need improving and Sam's going to do that.

If we put a team out with clear tactics we'll already by a million miles better and that's what Sam will do. He'll get England back to the basics and he'll get them used to coping with media pressure.

We might not win anything but you can guarantee the passion will be there and so will a gameplan. That's a million miles better than what we've had in major tournaments under Woy. Sets a good platform for future manager as well. At that stage we might be able to go more purist.
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I didnt say he shouted or ranted at people, the poster I replied to was the one who said he was a good choice because he might actually have a go at the players and I said if you think that is good management you are living in the the dark ages.

What facts have I picked and chosen? The points I made were again in response to the post that had been made about how we had won the rugby world cup and that the cricket team have top 20 players. Have the rugby and cricket teams not improved by going out and getting the best they can after struggling at major tournaments under English managers??

You say Sam gets results, he has won 1 trophy in his entire career, the 3rd division with Port Vale, he is one of the least decorated managers in the PL.
 
I like big Sam. Not enough to care about the national team but good luck to him.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
I didnt say he shouted or ranted at people, the poster I replied to was the one who said he was a good choice because he might actually have a go at the players and I said if you think that is good management you are living in the the dark ages.

What facts have I picked and chosen? The points I made were again in response to the post that had been made about how we had won the rugby world cup and that the cricket team have top 20 players. Have the rugby and cricket teams not improved by going out and getting the best they can after struggling at major tournaments under English managers??

You say Sam gets results, he has won 1 trophy in his entire career, the 3rd division with Port Vale, he is one of the least decorated managers in the PL.
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He gets results - his target has generally been to keep teams in the league and he does so. Sunderland were really up against it but they got the results they needed and stayed up. He goes to clubs and manages them effectively. With England he doesn't have to worry about player recruitment where he's potentially weaker than other managers out there. He doesn't need to worry about a brand of football particularly because English fans now almost universally accept we're not a top nation, we're not capable of playing Spanish style possession football but, we're good enough to be getting to the latter stages at major tournaments. Big Sam can easily do that successfully.

I don't see another manager out there that deserves it more than Sam. He has passion for the job and that's desperately needed these days where players are half arsed most of the time.
 
If you want an Englishman, BFS has the best credentials. The only obvious alternative is to get hold of Derek Acorah and see if he can contact Alf Ramsey or Joe Mercer on the other side.

That says a lot about the state of the game in England, but that's a whole different argument. Look at the alternatives. Bruce? Shearer? Stuart Pearce?
 
supercity88 said:
He gets results - his target has generally been to keep teams in the league and he does so. Sunderland were really up against it but they got the results they needed and stayed up. He goes to clubs and manages them effectively. With England he doesn't have to worry about player recruitment where he's potentially weaker than other managers out there. He doesn't need to worry about a brand of football particularly because English fans now almost universally accept we're not a top nation, we're not capable of playing Spanish style possession football but, we're good enough to be getting to the latter stages at major tournaments. Big Sam can easily do that successfully.

I don't see another manager out there that deserves it more than Sam. He has passion for the job and that's desperately needed these days where players are half arsed most of the time.
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So you accept that I didnt say he ranted or shouted at his players and understand why I used the facts that I did in the post you decided to reply to? I also said earlier in the thread he is probably the best English candidate by default, the pool of English candidates is so poor that doesnt really give him any credit though.

He is good at keeping teams up and is effective at that, however there is no international equivalent to being 17th in the league, he has no tournament experience as a player or a manager, he's not won any cups. If you are happy with mediocrity then that is for you, I just think the richest FA in the world should be aiming higher than that.
 
Paul Lake's Left Knee said:
You say Sam gets results, he has won 1 trophy in his entire career, the 3rd division with Port Vale, he is one of the least decorated managers in the PL.
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He's never managed Port Vale. He has however managed a team that finished in the top eight in the Premier League for four consecutive seasons, on limited resources. He also qualified for the UEFA Cup twice during that time and reached a League Cup final.

If all that counts is the number of trophies won, then Martinez is a better manager than any of the English candidates by virtue of having a decent cup run with Wigan even though they were relegated the same season.

You sound like that FA lawyer who was on TalkSport today, talking about his involvement in appointing Steve McClaren rather than Allardyce, because McClaren had won a trophy and Allardyce hadn't. Boro beat Bolton in the final he was referring to, so in other words had Bolton won, Allardyce would probably have got the job ten years ago and we might have actually qualified for the Euros.
 
ancoats said:
if BFS is the best choice by the FA then we (england) are fucked

structure is the key and if you have a way of playing and know your role's and formation you can pick just about any good player and he will know the role and slot right in. you dont have to have 11 world beaters just team spirit and your half way there
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If you can't see the contradiction in those two comments, then you don't really know much about the way that Allardyce operates.
 
SpiritofBurnden said:
He's never managed Port Vale. He has however managed a team that finished in the top eight in the Premier League for four consecutive seasons, on limited resources. He also qualified for the UEFA Cup twice during that time and reached a League Cup final.

If all that counts is the number of trophies won, then Martinez is a better manager than any of the English candidates by virtue of having a decent cup run with Wigan even though they were relegated the same season.

You sound like that FA lawyer who was on TalkSport today, talking about his involvement in appointing Steve McClaren rather than Allardyce, because McClaren had won a trophy and Allardyce hadn't. Boro beat Bolton in the final he was referring to, so in other words had Bolton won, Allardyce would probably have got the job ten years ago and we might have actually qualified for the Euros.
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Sorry I meant Notts County, fact is he hasnt won a major trophy no matter how many ifs or buts

Martinez is useless, he's still won more than BFS, you pick someone who hasnt even got a job at the moment to try and make a point. Eddie Howe has won more than BFS. I would be casting the net far wider than English candidates.

McClaren was a worse appointment than fat Sam is now, that isnt hindsight, I said it at the time, I would have gone for O'Neill of those they interviewed, McClaren is a number 2.
 
If BFS has the team set up the Engerland way (4-4-2) with average defenders, midfield with one bruiser and a big man up front. As well as instilling the 'technically they're better than us but they can't play if we twat em' mentality. A team fully committed playing for each other, not pretty but works with 1-0, 2-1 wins. I can see him having a reasonable tenure. As long as he's allowed to pick and do what he wants without FA interference. Let him kick out the shirt sellers and replace them with grafters and the shirt sales will double.
 
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