Saudi Pro League

Stephen230 · 17 Jul 2023

SambaStyle said:
Yep. MLS for me. Huge and rich country, young population getting into football now. Hope it never happens, but I can see the best of football all ending up there within my lifetime.

Unless a super league happens!

Are they getting into football though? That’s a proper question not a statement of the opposite?

I’m sure I’ve been hearing for about 40 years now, how it’s the fastest growing sport over there. Yet you watch an American sports bulletin and chances are it won’t even get a mention.

SebastianBlue · 17 Jul 2023

Constantine said:
Americans actually don't give shit about .. soccer. It's just some people originating from Mexico and South-American countries who follow some of their compatriot players. Don't believe the media salesmen.

This is demonstratively not true.

Source: I live in the US.

Stephen230 said:
Are they getting into football though? That’s a proper question not a statement of the opposite?

I’m sure I’ve been hearing for about 40 years now, how it’s the fastest growing sport over there. Yet you watch an American sports bulletin and chances are it won’t even get a mention.

It is the fastest growing major sport in the US by viewership, attendance, and revenue. It has overtaken Hockey to take fourth most watched/played sport across all age groups and is projected to overtake Baseball for third (behind American football and basketball) by the end of the decade.

Demographic shifts to a more diverse population over the next two decades, with more and more households hailing from countries where football is the top sport, will likely see it compete directly with basketball.

There is a reason Apple aggressively sought streaming rights for MLS matches and is looking to try to acquire partial Premier League streaming rights in the next bidding round.

The growth in the top two sports (American Football, Basketball) in the US has slowed considerably (especially NFL), and baseball’s viewership/participation rates have famously been falling for sometime (the MLB have actually been making many changes to try to slow and/or reverse that trend, including introducing new timing rules to reduce the length of games).

Nominally the NFL and NBA still dominate viewership and participation rates. But, as is the case with most things, the insight is in the trend lines, and football (soccer) is the only major sport with an upward trajectory.

And Messi joining Inter Miami will only help to accelerate that trend (I have said in the Messi thread that I think his impact will be far more on growing interest in the MLS and football in general than on success on the pitch).

hammocity · 20 Jul 2023

SambaStyle said:
Brozovic and Savic are the two best midfielders in Serie A.. or were.

Absolute bollocks

Gray · 20 Jul 2023

What size of crowds do they get?

SebastianBlue · 20 Jul 2023

Gray said:
What size of crowds do they get?

To continue the Saudi Pro League - MLS comparison, the worst MLS club for average attendance (Chicago Fire) have higher attendance than the second best Saudi Pro League club for average attendance (Fake Ronaldo’s Al Nassr).

The best Saudi Pro League club for average attendance (Al Ittihad), who has more than twice the average attendance than every other club in the league, would rank second in the MLS. Every other club would make up the bottom of a combined table.

And variance in MLS match attendance is fairly low, whilst variance in Saudi Pro League attendance is high, meaning sometimes they get more on the day, and sometimes they get far, far fewer.

There is also the general suspicion that the official Saudi Pro League attendance figures are inflated, making it likely that—outside of Al Ittihad—they are even worse than shown in the table below.

Whereas MLS attendances can be fairly easily verified.

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 - Attendance

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 » Attendance » Home matches

www.worldfootball.net

#		Team	Total	Games	Avg
	overall	1.204.101	134	8.986
1		Al Ittihad	355.699	9	39.522
2		Al Nassr	115.311	7	16.473
3		Al Adalah	111.555	9	12.395
4		Al Fateh	108.198	9	12.022
5		Al Hilal	89.838	10	8.984
6		Al Ra’ed	66.412	10	6.641
7		Al Ettifaq	72.283	11	6.571
8		Al Tai	32.290	5	6.458
9		Al Shabab	36.940	6	6.157
10		Al Taawoun	41.068	8	5.134
11		Al Khaleej	50.528	10	5.053
12		Damac FC	39.130	10	3.913
13		Al Batin	20.610	6	3.435
14		Abha Club	23.860	7	3.409
15		Al Fayha	25.947	8	3.243
16		Al Wehda	14.432	9	1.604

2023 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

The 2023 MLS attendance numbers ended on a high note, with huge crowds in Charlotte (the Messi effect!) Toronto and New England.

soccerstadiumdigest.com

Team	Av.	Avg	Total	Games	Total	YOY	W21
1	Atlanta United FC	45,081	540,977	12	41,116	0.10	43,576
2	Charlotte FC	34,394	378,335	11	35,260	-0.02
3	Seattle Sounders	31,877	414,403	13	33,607	-0.05	32,753
4	Nashville SC	28,604	343,249	12	27,554	0.04	30,109
5	LAFC	26,164	366,296	14	22,090	0.18	22,010
6	FC Cincinnati	25,306	303,672	12	22,487	0.13	25,513
7	Toronto FC	24,913	298,956	12	25,423	-0.02
8	Portland Timbers	23,321	256,527	11	23,841	-0.02	24,181
9	NE Revolution	22,594	271,124	12	20,319	0.11	47,499*
10	St. Louis SC	22,423	269,076	12	NA	NA	22,423
11	LA Galaxy	20,884	167,073	8	22,841	-0.09
12	Austin FC	20,738	248,856	12	20,738	0.00	20,738
13	NYC FC	20,705	207,050	10	17,180	0.21
14	Columbus Crew	20,227	242,729	12	19,237	0.05
15	Orlando City SC	19,622	235,461	12	17,261	0.14
16	Minnesota United	19,558	195,581	10	19,555	0.00	19,954
17	Real Salt Lake	19,228	230,731	12	20,470	-0.06	20,556
18	SJ Earthquakes	19,209	230,510	12	15,260	0.26	13,577
19	Philadelphia Union	18,859	207,454	11	18,126	0.04	19,363
20	FC Dallas	18,530	203,825	11	17,469	0.06
21	Sporting KC	18,383	220,595	12	18,365	0.00	17,924
22	D.C. United	18,007	198,072	11	16,256	0.11
23	CF Montreal	17,844	196,289	11	15,905	0.12	18,413
24	NY Red Bulls	17,302	207,627	12	17,002	0.02	13,439
25	Inter Miami CF	16,483	181,312	11	12,637	0.30
26	Vancouver Whitecaps	16,118	209,532	13	16,399	-0.02	33,349*
27	Colorado Rapids	15,622	187,461	12	14,473	0.08	17,426
28	Houston Dynamo	15,371	169,082	11	16,426	-0.06	11,855
29	Chicago Fire	15,086	181,034	12	15,848	-0.05	30,742
	TOTALS	21,913	7,362,889	336	21,006	0.04	485,400

Gray · 20 Jul 2023

SebastianBlue said:
To continue the Saudi Pro League - MLS comparison, the worst MLS club for average attendance (Chicago Fire) have higher attendance than the second best Saudi Pro League club for average attendance (Fake Ronaldo’s Al Nassr).

The best Saudi Pro League club for average attendance (Al Ittihad), who has more than twice the average attendance than every other club in the league, would rank second in the MLS. Every other club would make up the bottom of a combined table.

And variance in MLS match attendance is fairly low, whilst variance in Saudi Pro League attendance is high, meaning sometimes they get more on the day, and sometimes they get far, far fewer.

There is also the general suspicion that the official Saudi Pro League attendance figures are inflated, making it likely that—outside of Al Ittihad—they are even worse than shown in the table below.

Whereas MLS attendances can be fairly easily verified.

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 - Attendance

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 » Attendance » Home matches

www.worldfootball.net

overall
1.204.101
134
8.986
#
Team
Total
Games
Avg
1

Al Ittihad
355.699
9
39.522
2

Al Nassr
115.311
7
16.473
3

Al Adalah
111.555
9
12.395
4

Al Fateh
108.198
9
12.022
5

Al Hilal
89.838
10
8.984
6

Al Ra’ed
66.412
10
6.641
7

Al Ettifaq
72.283
11
6.571
8

Al Tai
32.290
5
6.458
9

Al Shabab
36.940
6
6.157
10

Al Taawoun
41.068
8
5.134
11

Al Khaleej
50.528
10
5.053
12

Damac FC
39.130
10
3.913
13

Al Batin
20.610
6
3.435
14

Abha Club
23.860
7
3.409
15

Al Fayha
25.947
8
3.243
16

Al Wehda
14.432
9
1.604

2023 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

The 2023 MLS attendance numbers ended on a high note, with huge crowds in Charlotte (the Messi effect!) Toronto and New England.

soccerstadiumdigest.com

Team Av. Avg Total Games Total YOY W21
1 Atlanta United FC 45,081 540,977 12 41,116 0.10 43,576
2 Charlotte FC 34,394 378,335 11 35,260 -0.02
3 Seattle Sounders 31,877 414,403 13 33,607 -0.05 32,753
4 Nashville SC 28,604 343,249 12 27,554 0.04 30,109
5 LAFC 26,164 366,296 14 22,090 0.18
22,010
6 FC Cincinnati 25,306 303,672 12 22,487 0.13 25,513
7 Toronto FC 24,913 298,956 12 25,423 -0.02
8 Portland Timbers 23,321 256,527 11 23,841 -0.02 24,181
9 NE Revolution 22,594 271,124 12 20,319 0.11 47,499*
10 St. Louis SC 22,423 269,076 12 NA NA 22,423
11 LA Galaxy 20,884 167,073 8 22,841 -0.09
12 Austin FC 20,738 248,856 12 20,738 0.00 20,738
13 NYC FC 20,705 207,050 10 17,180 0.21
14 Columbus Crew 20,227 242,729 12 19,237 0.05
15 Orlando City SC 19,622 235,461 12 17,261 0.14
16 Minnesota United 19,558 195,581 10 19,555 0.00 19,954
17 Real Salt Lake 19,228 230,731 12 20,470 -0.06 20,556
18 SJ Earthquakes 19,209 230,510 12 15,260 0.26 13,577
19 Philadelphia Union 18,859 207,454 11 18,126 0.04 19,363
20 FC Dallas 18,530 203,825 11 17,469 0.06
21 Sporting KC 18,383 220,595 12 18,365 0.00 17,924
22 D.C. United 18,007 198,072 11 16,256 0.11
23 CF Montreal 17,844 196,289 11 15,905 0.12 18,413
24 NY Red Bulls 17,302 207,627 12 17,002 0.02 13,439
25 Inter Miami CF 16,483 181,312 11 12,637 0.30
26 Vancouver Whitecaps 16,118 209,532 13 16,399 -0.02 33,349*
27 Colorado Rapids 15,622 187,461 12 14,473 0.08 17,426
28 Houston Dynamo 15,371 169,082 11 16,426 -0.06 11,855
29 Chicago Fire 15,086 181,034 12 15,848 -0.05 30,742
TOTALS 21,913 7,362,889 336 21,006 0.04 485,400

Brilliant info, nothing to fear from those figures. Players going there are basically doing a Steve Pointalot.

bobbyowenquiff · 20 Jul 2023

SebastianBlue said:
This is demonstratively not true.

Source: I live in the US.

It is the fastest growing major sport in the US by viewership, attendance, and revenue. It has overtaken Hockey to take fourth most watched/played sport across all age groups and is projected to overtake Baseball for third (behind American football and basketball) by the end of the decade.

Demographic shifts to a more diverse population over the next two decades, with more and more households hailing from countries where football is the top sport, will likely see it compete directly with basketball.

There is a reason Apple aggressively sought streaming rights for MLS matches and is looking to try to acquire partial Premier League streaming rights in the next bidding round.

The growth in the top two sports (American Football, Basketball) in the US has slowed considerably (especially NFL), and baseball’s viewership/participation rates have famously been falling for sometime (the MLB have actually been making many changes to try to slow and/or reverse that trend, including introducing new timing rules to reduce the length of games).

Nominally the NFL and NBA still dominate viewership and participation rates. But, as is the case with most things, the insight is in the trend lines, and football (soccer) is the only major sport with an upward trajectory.

And Messi joining Inter Miami will only help to accelerate that trend (I have said in the Messi thread that I think his impact will be far more on growing interest in the MLS and football in general than on success on the pitch).

And some of the attendances have been huge for matches there. The recent LA derby had a crowd of 82,000. I believe this latest surge in football in the USA is not a false dawn.

TinFoilHat · 20 Jul 2023

SebastianBlue said:
MLS is a far bigger threat to the PL than the Saudi Pro League.

And even it is at least decade or two away from having any chance of really competing.

Will they succumb to promotion/Relegation like their USL rivals?

TinFoilHat · 20 Jul 2023

Whispers that the Saudis have some backdoor deals with Chavs and Dippers as an FFPR dodge. Could explain some of the transfer fees?

Surprised the media aren't digging. After all Yankee Doodle Dandy operations links FSG are whiter than white.

SambaStyle · 20 Jul 2023

hammocity said:
Absolute bollocks

Which part? name 10 better.

Saudi Pro League

Stephen230

Well-Known Member

SebastianBlue

President, International Julian Alvarez Fan Club

hammocity

Well-Known Member

Gray

Well-Known Member

SebastianBlue

President, International Julian Alvarez Fan Club

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 - Attendance

2023 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

Gray

Well-Known Member

Saudi Pro League 2022/2023 - Attendance

2023 MLS Attendance - Soccer Stadium Digest

bobbyowenquiff

Well-Known Member

TinFoilHat

Well-Known Member

TinFoilHat

Well-Known Member

SambaStyle

Well-Known Member