That is indeed what would tip the balance. They don't need to say anything. Yet. a whole year of trade negotiations ahead, saving it for post withdrawal.
Scottish Independence
- Thread starter Gray
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That is indeed what would tip the balance. They don't need to say anything. Yet. a whole year of trade negotiations ahead, saving it for post withdrawal.
I don't think it is as black and white as that, (i.e not everyone will see it so, i for example don't) but yes certainly the logic/principle is valid. Really the worst thing (for the SNP that is) Boris could do is give them the referendum, call their bluff. I doubt he doesn't know that too. refusing it will only play into the narrative, sure, buys him time, keeps focus on brexit, and most importantly makes him look good to his voters. But long term, exactly what the snp want. A chance to secure another majority in Holywood for the next 5 years first, and Then a referendum with more time to 'build' their case.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
There is no case to build for independence, just population and money to find to even start to think it could ever work.
Scottish independence =
Scottish independence =
Saddleworth2
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Completely agree with that. If he was smart that is exactly what he would do. Be very cooperative whilst pointing out in a controlled way some of the problems. If he were smart he would sanction a referendum within a year but refuse to let Holyrood choose a later date. However he won't do that and we will get another few years of conflict and anti independence (like posting pictures of Oliver Twist with a begging bowl @blueinsa , see above.) and increasingly anti Scottish nonsense. Brexit will not be an economic or political success but it is highly unlikely that we will get any other government in Westminster than a Boris lead tory one. Whilst I agree with you it isnt black and white, the momentum and flight path is only going in one direction.
The longer the Tories claim there won’t be a break of the UK, the longer they’ll get majorities.
Labour will support a referendum to try and form a coalition and well, because they don’t care much for the union and they’ll not get in.
If anyone thinks there will be another IndyRef in the 2020’s, they are sadly mistaken.
Labour will support a referendum to try and form a coalition and well, because they don’t care much for the union and they’ll not get in.
If anyone thinks there will be another IndyRef in the 2020’s, they are sadly mistaken.
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manclad
Well-Known Member
Which is exactly what I said when I bumped the thread yesterday.
I doubt many people south of the border vote with keeping Scotland in the UK as a priority.
The longer Boris denies it, the stronger he makes their hand. I'm not so sure about the 2020s claim. Brexit doesn't go well and they return a similar SNP majority in 2024, the question would have to be asked.
nmc
Well-Known Member
The basic Tory position is unsustainable. Britain needed out of Europe to take control of its own decisions in accordance with the will of the people. But the people of Scotland need to shut up and do as England tells them. For many people in Scotland Westminster is as big an issue as Brussels was for the English. It should also not be forgotten that Cameron et al promised a wholly different relationship within the Union at the last Indy vote - much of which was instantly forgotten and not delivered. It’s also incredibly arrogant for the English to say Scotland will be worse off as a consequence of independence- doesn’t all reliable data re Brexit say the same? I’m not Scottish but I genuinely believe if Scotland want a vote on independence let them have one given the differences between the views of the Scottish electorate on Brexit and mainstream politics - Scotland is leaving Europe against its will and has a government that Scotland did not vote for. I would say though and indyref needs to come with the same caveat as the second Québécois referendum - this is the end of the matter - stay or go but stop the indecision.
I think you’re wrong on that.
With Brexit out of the way, keeping the UK together will be huge in 2024.
Johnson will do what May did, keep ignoring the SNP and the Tories will continue to be voted in.
Eventually the movement will fizzle out and once it’s polling below 30%, the SNP will cease to ask for it.
I really don’t even think there’s an appetite to leave the UK, the polls aren’t favourable.
blueparrot
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ty-independence-scots-oppose-nicola-sturgeon/
Chris Curtis, political research manager at YouGov, said: "These are concerning times for unionists both north and south of the border with Yes gaining considerable ground on No since 2014."