Shamima Begum

[Blue Mist]

Exactly. In an ideal world I'd want to see her prosecuted for treason and terror offences and throw away the key but the reality is because of the reasons you mention there's a massive risk of her not ending up in jail should we let her back into the country.

The next best solution is to do exactly what we've done. One less terrorist on British soil and some people are acting like that's a bad thing.

An interesting point was made at the hearing by an MI6 agent. He stated she was 15 at the time she went abroad, she was intelligent with anticipated grades in exams of A and A+. She was not uneducated, she knew or must have known what IS were doing and the horrors they had alrwady committed. He stated she made the decision to go.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Yes we can make her stateless and yes we have.
Can we prosecute her ? I'm not so sure we can. We cannot use evidence from phone taps so what is the evidence ? We can prove she left this country as someone can stand up in court and say so. After that ? Would we get evidence that can be tested in court that she left Turkey and entered Syria, more to the point, can we prove any illegal activity once she arrived there ? Evidence requires a witness that the defence can cross examine. I doubt we have that hence the removal of citizenship.

Citation? Recordings are admissible.

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

Let her in. Otherwise this will be going on forever and cost millions to the taxpayer.

A lot of people do not want her anywhere near this country as this would send a message out to other girls/teenagers thinking of going over that whatever happens, you do have a right to come back.

Would she be given a new identity so she can work & settle somewhere safe? Unlike thousands of her and her cults victims in Syria

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Let her in. Otherwise this will be going on forever and cost millions to the taxpayer.

A lot of people do not want her anywhere near this country as this would send a message out to other girls/teenagers thinking of going over that whatever happens, you do have a right to come back.

Would she be given a new identity so she can work & settle somewhere safe? Unlike thousands of her and her cults victims in Syria

There are hundreds that have done the same as her that have come back and served their time.

This woman was interviewed on TV and the Tories decided to play politics with her.

 

[bluethrunthru]

An interesting point was made at the hearing by an MI6 agent. He stated she was 15 at the time she went abroad, she was intelligent with anticipated grades in exams of A and A+. She was not uneducated, she knew or must have known what IS were doing and the horrors they had alrwady committed. He stated she made the decision to go.

My kids both graduated Uni with a first - at 15 they were intelligent and knew everything about Dr Who and fuck all about terrorism.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Are you suggesting that people who do good things enable terrorism, whilst people who do bad things stop terrorism.

….or that stopping a terrorist isn’t doing a good thing?

 

[mexico1970]

There are hundreds that have done the same as her that have come back and served their time.

This woman was interviewed on TV and the Tories decided to play politics with her.

Allow me to take out the worlds smallest violin and go all sad and gutted for you.

 

[Shirley]

She has a few children now, not sure exactly how many.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Allow me to take out the worlds smallest violin and go all sad and gutted for you.

You can do what you like. The legal precedent is there.

Violin or no violin.

 

[domalino]

My kids both graduated Uni with a first - at 15 they were intelligent and knew everything about Dr Who and fuck all about terrorism.

Just an incredibly weak, completely transparent attempt to make a court pretend a 15 year old girl was not a child when she was trafficked to the middle east.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Just an incredibly weak, completely transparent attempt to make a court pretend a 15 year old girl was not a child when she was trafficked to the middle east.

Have to agree. Any child under 16 who is talked into sex, no matter how willingly, is said to be a victim. This is no different.

 

[domalino]

Have to agree. Any child under 16 who is talked into sex, no matter how willingly, is said to be a victim. This is no different.

The whole thing is a shambles.

The UK government has confirmed she was moved to Syria by an adult man at 15 (aka trafficked). If she was trafficked, they wouldn't be able to revoke her nationality.

But they won't do an official "traficking assessment" because she's not a UK national now they've revoked her citizenship.

The whole thing is based on Javid wanting to make headlines after she got interviewed and being briefed by an MI5 officer who has testified that no one over 14 could ever travel somewhere involuntarily or under duress.



The government is trying to create a system where if they simply refuse to do any due dilligence, a person has no legal recourse to challenge losing their citizenship. It's the same thing we've seen over and over again in the last 5 years, trying to find ways of circumventing the law, either British law or ECHR.

Unfortunately some people will cheer for the erosion of their own rights as long as it's happening to asylum seekers or some ISIS child bride because they can't see that all of our rights are being attacked.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

She has a few children now, not sure exactly how many.

None. They all died in infancy.

 

[hilts]

Edited for accuracy.

At my age?:-)

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

There are hundreds that have done the same as her that have come back and served their time.

This woman was interviewed on TV and the Tories decided to play politics with her.

And she’s a woman too, so must be worse than any man in a similar position. Look at Hindley and Brady and how many people, had they had one bullet, would have shot her not him. Fred and Rosemary West were similar as well.
Those 2 men enjoyed torturing their victims before killing them but they’re almost invisible when women are involved, which I have always thought was a bit of an odd phenomenon.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

And she’s a woman too, so must be worse than any man in a similar position. Look at Hindley and Brady and how many people, had they had one bullet, would have shot her not him. Fred and Rosemary West were similar as well.
Those 2 men enjoyed torturing their victims before killing them but they’re almost invisible when women are involved, which I have always thought was a bit of an odd phenomenon.

Not really following your reasoning. I guess at the time, people may have thought that women would have more “motherly” qualities that made people detest what they did more, but it’s nothing to do with this particular case as both men and women have returned from fighting for ISIS and been brought back, punished and then reintegrated into society.

Begum did an interview and said silly things. Now she’s meat for the people encouraging the U.K. to break more and more international laws.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Not really following your reasoning. I guess at the time, people may have thought that women would have more “motherly” qualities that made people detest what they did more, but it’s nothing to do with this particular case as both men and women have returned from fighting for ISIS and been brought back, punished and then reintegrated into society.

Begum did an interview and said silly things. Now she’s meat for the people encouraging the U.K. to break more and more international laws.

I just think if she’d been a man she’d already be back here, that’s all.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I just think if she’d been a man she’d already be back here, that’s all.

Maybe she would. I don’t know. If she hadn’t done that interview, she’d definitely be back here and no one would have heard of her.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Maybe she would. I don’t know. If she hadn’t done that interview, she’d definitely be back here and no one would have heard of her.

I can’t help thinking that reinstating her citizenship would not subject the UK to ‘very high harm’ in respect of terrorism, war crimes or serious organised crime, as is the law. I also find it odd that this decision, when it was made was entirely at the discretion of the Home Secretary.

Removing for fraud however, is entirely reasonable, as it doesn’t then render the person ‘stateless’.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I can’t help thinking that reinstating her citizenship would not subject the UK to ‘very high harm’ in respect of terrorism, war crimes or serious organised crime, as is the law. I also find it odd that this decision, when it was made was entirely at the discretion of the Home Secretary.

Removing for fraud however, is entirely reasonable, as it doesn’t then render the person ‘stateless’.

Domalino says what we are saying here above. It’s to paint the ECHR as the bad guys and that we need to leave their jurisdiction to allow us to make our own rules and punishments at the cost of Begum’s rights.

Using the narrative that she became a terrorist, so why should anyone care about her?