Shootings in Paris

[stonerblue]

Nice side step.

This thread has encompassed many subjects and has gone off on several tangents, all relating to the wider issues of the horrific incidents in Paris.

Several posters were discussing the shooting video. They were asking why the blood was placed there after the murder?, I don't know what it shows as I have pointed out several times to other posters and you, that "I have not watched the video".

Balti asked one poster "are you saying it's a hoax", attempting to shut down the discussion with another one of his famous one liners, implying governments don't lie to people. I was merely pointing out that sometimes they do and providing those interested in this subject some evidence of this.

There is a link with both of the Gulf Wars if not why did we go to war with Sadam post 9/11?. (Oh yeah WMD's launched against the UK within 45mins. Remember that?.)

If what you say is true about the "Gulf wars not having anything to do with the shootings in Paris". Then you must believe that this was an isolated incident and isn't related to any of the terrorism the world has witnessed since the war on terror(TM) started.

I think most of the stuff we have witnessed is part of a wider grand scheme. Whether that is an organised terrorist group plotting against all of us in the west. Or a few disgruntled people who are disenchanted with the way the world is run and are prepared to kill as a result. It is probably both. I have only pointed out terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam. We have had other terrorist groups such as the IRA, ETA, Irgun, Lehi etc. who are not Islamic but have also engaged in terrorist acts and murdered innocent people.

The IRA we all know about and have experienced their brand of terrorism.

Since 1968, ETA has been held responsible for killing 829 people, injuring thousands and undertaking dozens of kidnappings. The group is proscribed as a terrorist organization by the Spanish, British, French and American authorities, and by the European Union as a whole. This convention is followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also refer to the group as "terrorists". More than 700 members of the organization are incarcerated in prisons in Spain, France, and other countries.

Irgun outlined "a future Jewish state" (is that any different to what ISIS are doing now?) they even killed british soldiers (sounds familiar doesn't it?). This was one of their mission statements:

"The God of Israel, God of Hosts, will be at our side. There is no retreat. Liberty or death.... The fighting youth will not recoil in the face of sacrifices and suffering, blood and torment. They will not surrender, so long as our days of old are not renewed, so long as our nation is not ensured a homeland, liberty, honor, bread, justice and law." (sounds straight out of one of those Islamic terrorist videos). Obviously they got their wish, Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war.

Lehi ("Fighters for the Freedom of Israel – Lehi"), initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine. Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis. During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".I think that speaks for itself but me not being Jewish or Islamic it sounds too similar to what we hear today. Again they also killed British people in their campaign. Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980, Israel instituted a military decoration in "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel," the Lehi ribbon. Lehi was formally dissolved and integrated into the Israeli Defense Forces on 31 May 1948, its leaders getting amnesty from prosecution or reprisals as part of the integration.

Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.

Not one crazy Muslamic nut job in sight.

Great post.

If somewhat off topic!.

;-)

Not in my house.

 

[Anonymous]

Not in my house.

You're just paranoid from years of weed usage!. ;)

 

[west didsblue]

Great post.

If somewhat off topic!.

;-)

Not in my house.

Perhaps you could explain the relevance of the post to the Jihadist murder of some cartoonists then?

 

[Anonymous]

If somewhat off topic!.

;-)

Not in my house.

Perhaps you could explain the relevance of the post to the Jihadist murder of some cartoonists then?

Relevant or not you've debated it every step of the way. So you're as much to blame.

Back on topic, did you see the piece on the One Show earlier?, it was Mancunians from the Jewish and Muslim communities coming together against terrorism. Both speaking of the need to be tolerant, understanding and respectful of all people and how terrorism effects us all.

Looking at it from both sides should always be at the centre of reasoned debate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04y8vyr/the-one-show-19012015

 

[Balti]

Nice side step.

This thread has encompassed many subjects and has gone off on several tangents, all relating to the wider issues of the horrific incidents in Paris.

Several posters were discussing the shooting video. They were asking why the blood was placed there after the murder?, I don't know what it shows as I have pointed out several times to other posters and you, that "I have not watched the video".

Balti asked one poster "are you saying it's a hoax", attempting to shut down the discussion with another one of his famous one liners, implying governments don't lie to people. I was merely pointing out that sometimes they do and providing those interested in this subject some evidence of this.

There is a link with both of the Gulf Wars if not why did we go to war with Sadam post 9/11?. (Oh yeah WMD's launched against the UK within 45mins. Remember that?.)

If what you say is true about the "Gulf wars not having anything to do with the shootings in Paris". Then you must believe that this was an isolated incident and isn't related to any of the terrorism the world has witnessed since the war on terror(TM) started.

I think most of the stuff we have witnessed is part of a wider grand scheme. Whether that is an organised terrorist group plotting against all of us in the west. Or a few disgruntled people who are disenchanted with the way the world is run and are prepared to kill as a result. It is probably both. I have only pointed out terrorism isn't exclusive to Islam. We have had other terrorist groups such as the IRA, ETA, Irgun, Lehi etc. who are not Islamic but have also engaged in terrorist acts and murdered innocent people.

The IRA we all know about and have experienced their brand of terrorism.

Since 1968, ETA has been held responsible for killing 829 people, injuring thousands and undertaking dozens of kidnappings. The group is proscribed as a terrorist organization by the Spanish, British, French and American authorities, and by the European Union as a whole. This convention is followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also refer to the group as "terrorists". More than 700 members of the organization are incarcerated in prisons in Spain, France, and other countries.

Irgun outlined "a future Jewish state" (is that any different to what ISIS are doing now?) they even killed british soldiers (sounds familiar doesn't it?). This was one of their mission statements:

"The God of Israel, God of Hosts, will be at our side. There is no retreat. Liberty or death.... The fighting youth will not recoil in the face of sacrifices and suffering, blood and torment. They will not surrender, so long as our days of old are not renewed, so long as our nation is not ensured a homeland, liberty, honor, bread, justice and law." (sounds straight out of one of those Islamic terrorist videos). Obviously they got their wish, Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war.

Lehi ("Fighters for the Freedom of Israel – Lehi"), initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine. Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis. During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".I think that speaks for itself but me not being Jewish or Islamic it sounds too similar to what we hear today. Again they also killed British people in their campaign. Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980, Israel instituted a military decoration in "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel," the Lehi ribbon. Lehi was formally dissolved and integrated into the Israeli Defense Forces on 31 May 1948, its leaders getting amnesty from prosecution or reprisals as part of the integration.

Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.

Not one crazy Muslamic nut job in sight.

Another random post unrelated to the topic under discussion.

You appear to be ignoring the fact that the majority of the victims were journalists whose only "crime" was producing a cartoon of Mohammed. Please explain what that has to do with the Gulf war or the founding of the state of Israel.

Balance.

 

[johnny on the spot]

The poor, ignorant, servile fools. Pretending they know anything about God and his or her intentions for this freakish offshoot of monkeys and consoling their fear of death with silly fairy tales. Guess what, you daft bastards? This is it and it's all there is. This is what we're given, the third rock from the sun. A bountiful orb with enough to sustain us all and to support efforts to explore the cosmos. Instead of shooting and blowing each other up, how about we all get together and stop embarrassing our species.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

I don't know why people are arguing about the gulf war of the 90,s ,wasn't the invasion of Iraq in 2004 enough evidence that how governments lie ? Get it through your head that war is an industry which benifs the few,think about it,has Iraq invasion helped the economic situation of an ordinary man in states,UK ,or West I'm gernal or terrorism? And the answer is a big no ,for all we know it has gone worse and keeps on Detroiting ,we live in a fucked up world period run by bankers and war mongers

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I don't know why people are arguing about the gulf war of the 90,s ,wasn't the invasion of Iraq in 2004 enough evidence that how governments lie ? Get it through your head that war is an industry which benifs the few,think about it,has Iraq invasion helped the economic situation of an ordinary man in states,UK ,or West I'm gernal or terrorism? And the answer is a big no ,for all we know it has gone worse and keeps on Detroiting ,we live in a fucked up world period run by bankers and war mongers

2004?

 

[Anonymous]

Another random post unrelated to the topic under discussion.

You appear to be ignoring the fact that the majority of the victims were journalists whose only "crime" was producing a cartoon of Mohammed. Please explain what that has to do with the Gulf war or the founding of the state of Israel.

Balance.

Is that to visualise how outnumbered I am?, I don't play up to the crowd anyway. Unlike you.

BM's laziest poster strikes again. Haven't you got anything intelligent to say?.

Didn't think so.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

I don't know why people are arguing about the gulf war of the 90,s ,wasn't the invasion of Iraq in 2004 enough evidence that how governments lie ? Get it through your head that war is an industry which benifs the few,think about it,has Iraq invasion helped the economic situation of an ordinary man in states,UK ,or West I'm gernal or terrorism? And the answer is a big no ,for all we know it has gone worse and keeps on Detroiting ,we live in a fucked up world period run by bankers and war mongers

2004?

Mate is tha the only thing you picked up,could have been 03 ,04,05 for that matter but the reality is the same

 

[foetus]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

 

[Dubai Blue]

What happened to the young lad (cousin?) who was arrested the day after the shootings? He seemed to slip off the radar with everything else that went on.

Was thinking the same the other day .it was clearly reported at the time there was 3 gunmen and the next day he handed himself in .?
Sorry just don't see this bit ,thought one of the things was to die a maythar
So if there was only 2 gunmen ,they parked the car up ,went into the. Offices went onto the roof got back in it and drove off.
And the police just left the car alone while this was going on ?

So there definitely was only the two brothers then? Where did all that stuff come from about a getaway driver come from then?

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

What happened to the young lad (cousin?) who was arrested the day after the shootings? He seemed to slip off the radar with everything else that went on.

Was thinking the same the other day .it was clearly reported at the time there was 3 gunmen and the next day he handed himself in .?
Sorry just don't see this bit ,thought one of the things was to die a maythar
So if there was only 2 gunmen ,they parked the car up ,went into the. Offices went onto the roof got back in it and drove off.
And the police just left the car alone while this was going on ?

So there definitely was only the two brothers then? Where did all that stuff come from about a getaway driver come from then?

It was reported as fact all over the media .even the first post on here refers to the 3 gunmen.
I don't get what happened to the car all the time if there wasn't a 3rd person driving .? Like why went the tyres shot out ?

 

[aguero93:20]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

My first thought when I saw the headline "Police to monitor rallies in Australia for the Prophet Mohammed" was that the police in Oz need to get their priorities straight if they're searching for somebody who died 1383 years ago.

 

[west didsblue]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

My first thought when I saw the headline "Police to monitor rallies in Australia for the Prophet Mohammed" was that the police in Oz need to get their priorities straight if they're searching for somebody who died 1383 years ago.

Maybe they're expecting him to do a Jesus.

 

[Damocles]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

My first thought when I saw the headline "Police to monitor rallies in Australia for the Prophet Mohammed" was that the police in Oz need to get their priorities straight if they're searching for somebody who died 1383 years ago.

I'd like a Muslim or someone who has studied the Quran more than me to weigh in on this but I think this:

It is understood activities will be held in several Sydney’s suburbs to “demonstrate the Muslim community’s love for their Prophet”.

Shouldn't be allowed strictly. Love for the Prophet is a form of idolatry and takes away from the glory of Allah. Muhammed was a messenger from God and not a figure that should be worshipped on his own.

 

[aguero93:20]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

My first thought when I saw the headline "Police to monitor rallies in Australia for the Prophet Mohammed" was that the police in Oz need to get their priorities straight if they're searching for somebody who died 1383 years ago.

I'd like a Muslim or someone who has studied the Quran more than me to weigh in on this but I think this:

It is understood activities will be held in several Sydney’s suburbs to “demonstrate the Muslim community’s love for their Prophet”.

Shouldn't be allowed strictly. Love for the Prophet is a form of idolatry and takes away from the glory of Allah. Muhammed was a messenger from God and not a figure that should be worshipped on his own.

To the best of my knowledge most Muslims believe that your imam cannot be complete without love for the Prophet Mohammed, it's part of their faith akin to the worship of the Virgin Mary in the Catholic faith. It sounds like a bit of a contradiction when compared to the ban on depicting Mohammed but contradictions in religious belief are hardly rare.

 

[Balti]

oh dear
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-in-sydney-to-monitor-rallies-for-the-prophet-mohammed/story-fnpn118l-1227190004027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 7190004027</a>

Hizb ut-Tahrir is a transnational Islamic fundamentalist group that operates in more than forty countries with main emphasis in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. The group claims to be a political party that proceeds with non-violent means and whose ideology is Islam. Its objectives are strictly political, and its main goal is to topple an existing regime to resurrect the caliphate with structures and conditions similar to the ones of early seventh-century (C.E.) Islam. The proposed Islamic state will be responsible for transforming society in a united Ummah, and for spreading the word of Islam throughout the world. Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) rejects the modern, secular state structures and democracy as something “man-made,’ humanly derived and “un-Islamic,” and therefore, does not participate in any secular electoral process. However, HT does not reject modern technology and its advantages.

 

[scotty123]

5 Chechen Islamic terrorists have been arrested in Montpellier Southern France, they were caught with a large cache of explosives and automatic weapons
The Chechens are amongst the most violent and fanatical of all the Islamists, if they are now infiltrating into France then there will be big trouble ahead for the French

 

[aguero93:20]

5 Chechen Islamic terrorists have been arrested in Montpellier Southern France, they were caught with a large cache of explosives and automatic weapons
The Chechens are amongst the most violent and fanatical of all the Islamists, if they are now infiltrating into France then there will be big trouble ahead for the French

Thanks mate, I'll wait for a bit more violence to kick off before booking my summer flights, anything going through Charles de Gaulle or French airspace should be nice and cheap once these boys get involved.