So easy to play through

Im shocked its taken some people so long to realise what a few of us on here have been saying since day one about the way MP sets up his teams.....individuals are getting the blame (Mangala being the main one along with Yaya) but NO centre half wants midfielders and attackers running at them unopposed from the middle third of the pitch....the only defender that can cope with that is Kompany and even he will be undone by it at times.

MP and his system do not fit our players and never have done. This has been evident from day one but I thought he would either adapt his way of playing or buy the players to do what he wants. He has done neither and certain players have taken huge flack for it...especially mangala, bony (who clearly doesn't fit with our style of play) and yaya who is an absolute key p[layer for us but you either drop him or build a team around what he needs - again MP has done neither.

It was evident when we were playing well - the defensive frailties were obvious but rarely exposed as teams hadn't worked it out (or weren't brave enough to try) but it didn't take long for that to happen ( a few games in the Champs league showed the rest of the world how to do it)

`Once found out MP has stubbornly stuck to his plan A to our detriment
 
From watching the game yesterday and seeing Lingard, Rashford, Mata and Martial waltz through us with ease it, and after seeing Spurs, Leicester, West Ham etc all do the same thing at the Etihad it made me wonder how teams do this to us.

After a bit of re-watching it's clear to see that our problem lies firstly with the way that we press and secondly with the fact that when we utilise a midfield 2, we struggle to pick up runners, specifically attacking midfielders because we still try and press in the exact same manner as we do when we have a midfield 3.

It is clear to see that our defensive players and defensive minded midfield players are being told to press aggressively, meaning they should vacate their positions somewhat to intercept or tackle. We have all seen Otamendi do this to varying degrees of success (and failure) - Mahrez took advantage of it at the Etihad and Liverpool did a couple of times at Anfield.

When it works, it is a visually powerful thing to see. For example, Sevilla away and Kiev away, Fernandinho (in the Sevilla game) was exceptional with the number of aggressive interceptions he made, which lead to a counter. Fernando likewise against Kiev. Now, when you make these decision as part of a midfield central 3, you have a little bit more fall back as the team is more compact which means that the vacated space left by a interceptor is much smaller than it is when you have a lesser number of defensive players on the pitch.

However, when you are in a midfield 2 like yesterday there needs to be an adjustment or some sort of ban on this type of pressing where Fernandinho or Fernando (dependent on who is playing) try to engage or press on the half way line or even in the opponents half, because time and time again it causes us big problems. I've already gone over the Mahrez goal where a couple of players totally sold themselves -

If you rewatch you can see Fernandinho tries to press Kante on the half way line, and Otamendi steps into the midfield area to close down the space, totally selling himself in the process. That goal is totally stopped if Fernandinho or Otamendi simply contain the play.



Fast forward to the 2nd Spurs goal and again our midfield isn't really there. Yaya is outnumbered and loses the ball. Fernandinho was slightly behind him but not in a defensive position so there was space between our midfield and our defence. Considering at this point in the game we are playing a 4-4-2, there needs to be communication between Yaya and Fernandinho as one of them has to be responsible for the gap between themeselves and the backline. In this case, since Yaya is the ball carrier, it should be Fernandinho. Anyway, Lamela (who isn't being picked up by anybody) gets in the space and Otamendi engages, square on, only to have the ball played through him for Eriksen to score -




And this got me thinking back to other similar sort of goals we have conceded while playing with a midfield 2.
This is Moses at the Etihad in our 2-1 loss to West Ham. Once again, Fernandinho engages a West Ham player in his own half, who flicks the ball round him before running into the space behind him. Yaya isn't really concentrating and only reacts to the situation when the player is running past him. In turn this leads to a goal, although you could argue we still had enough players back to deal with the situation.

-



Finally if you look back to the Rashford goal yesterday, you will see the exact same thing happen(if you freeze it to 4 seconds you will see the point i am about to make). Fernandinho again tries to engage the opposition in their own half. This time it is Mata and he is trying to press on to Mata's first touch with the hope of intercepting and springing a counter. This would be fantastic in a midfield 3, but in a midfield 2, it is suicide, especially since Mata is the one United player with a reliable first touch. Anyway, he brings it down, engages Fernandinho, plays a simple one-two around him and he is in, attacking the space vacated by Fernandinho. Toure can't react quick enough to cover as he is also in line with Fernandinho. To make matters worse Demichellis tries to aggressively win the ball back by going to ground, again without thought to what is behind him (a giant goal with only Joe Hart stood in it) and they score.




I could go on and on and this isn't a dig at Fernandinho, he isn't the problem at all. He is being left short handed whilst being asked to do too much. The same goes for Yaya in a 2 (he is expected to contribute to too many phases of play). It's a massive problem with the way we set up and how we do not adapt our pressing game or intercepting game when we go from a midfield 3 to a midfield 2. Fernandinho just happens to be at the heart of this post because he is probably the chief presser in the team and the hardest working player. What should actually happen in a 2 is we should show more patience in winning the ball back, containing the opposition which in turn might actually open up a bit of space behind their own backline (once they advance a little).



This is where Pellegrini should show his knowledge really. The fact that he still either informs the team to press like this, or allows them to continually do it regardless is absolutely criminal. Neither Fernandinho or Yaya are really disciplined enough to play in a 2. Yaya isn't defensively disciplined and Fernandinho isn't disciplined enough to stay in his position. His game is based around aggressively closing space. They both need a player to sit behind them to shield the back 4 so they can both get on with their normal games. This is why we instantly look more solid as soon as Fernando comes on or starts. Yaya's doesn't have to track back to his own box, and Fernandinho isn't punished by a missed interception (let's face it, he isn't going to have a 100% success ratio) - yet often against decent teams, Pellegrini is setting them both up in a midfield 2.

All that's happening at the minute against the decent sides is that they are drawing Fernandinho out of position to exploit the space behind him, which leads to a clear run at a totally reactionary defence. Yaya can't cover because he is either ahead of the ball or he is closer to closing down the other opposition midfielder (as per yesterday) and the result is we are got at time and time again. Funnily enough the non-stop running of Fernandinho contrasted with Yaya's 'laid back' running style, coupled with the fact that we are constantly sliced open leads people to believing that the fault solely lies with Yaya, for being 'lazy' when actually, the problem goes much deeper than that and actually still exists when he doesn't play.

Anyway, It has been happening all season and is one of the largest contributing factors to our lack of success against the better sides, especially when we have gone with a 2 man midfield. But Pellegrini seemingly hasn't noticed this and we will continue to play his brand of football which is totally at odds with the personnel on the pitch. Roll on next season eh.



Could you send this to the club to pass on to the manager!! I've supported Pellers through thick & thin but when I saw he had picked Demi - knowing all Utd have is 2 young fast forwards - it was bewildering to say the least. It's arrogant to ignore the opposition's set up on the premise that "we must continue to play our game'.

Utd were poor yesterday as our 26 failed attempts on goal prove but we lost because we did not pay them enough respect. Respect should be shown to ALL premier teams but we have decided we don't need to worry about their game - as the results demonstrate.

Sure we had injuries in defence but we did have options. Sagna is having a great season & could have played CH with Zab at RB. Demi was hung out to dry - at our own expense.
 
Super post - I would go further and say that this is the main failing of the manager - he is asking players who are not capable of a pressing game to try an intercept and press high. I suspect that when our senior management team looked at how Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid play they saw teams that press in unison at high tempo - they then tell Pellegrini this is why we have failed in the CL so that is what we must replicate - That uncovers a major problem in that we don't have the personnel to do that and we've ended up with only one or two players pressing thus leaving gaping holes. Fitness of the players is also a major issue and you simply cannot play high press when you are accommodating players such as Yaya who don't have that stamina -The art to good management is to get the best of the players you have. If you look at our recent domestic successes they were down to getting the best from Yaya, Silva and Nasri by playing possession football whilst maintaining shape. This year we have no shape, and as you say Fernandinho is being asked to try and press but then the others don't so a simple pass puts him out of position and then we are on the back foot. An excellent summing up of a major problem - Can't for the life of me understand why Pellegrini fails to see it.
 
That's when we haven't got the ball, i'll raise you when we have........no movement

I lost count the amount of times we had the ball in central and wide positions and there was absoulutely no movement whatsoever, we're getting in some great positions early but nulify our attack by the lack of movement off the ball, frustrating to say the least.

I'm not defending MDM in the following, but on more than one occasion yesterday said situation made him look like a c##t.

There was zero movement in front of him.

We are easy to play against and this old fossil is to stubborn to adapt the way we are doing things.

I can't believe for a moment that he isn't aware of it.
 
I'm not defending MDM in the following, but on more than one occasion yesterday said situation made him look like a c##t.

There was zero movement in front of him.

We are easy to play against and this old fossil is to stubborn to adapt the way we are doing things.

I can't believe for a moment that he isn't aware of it.

i honestly believe he does but he feels his way is better just listen to his post match interveiw again

"We did not deserve to lose. We dominated the game from the first minute and we were the only team who wanted to play during the whole game - but we missed three or four chance to score."
 
ah great, we do have football minded fans on BM.... Great post..

Said it all season, we press, we pass shit, we lose the ball and all players are forward leaving defence wide open so we scream defence is SHIT !

If you press you have to have a good awareness around you, im a fan of yaya, but i bet my bottom dollar he even forgets to lock his own front door ! Rest of midfield are not the most aware of what is happening around them.

Ok we dont play with all out wingers, but when we go down the flanks we dont beat a player we give it away with silly passes to players 2 metres away with 2 defenders round them, sterling being the worse culprit. Then up front we give the ball to Bony and you might as well just hand the ball to their defensive midfield to go forward or lay on a splitting pass.

Fortunately the master of this type of game is coming next season, right now he is either laughing about the task ahead or thinking what the fuck do i do with this lot.

First job must be to show some of the players the difference between a pass and a shot.. You hit a shot hard, you pass the ball gracefully.. Did anybody see Sagna's rocket pass to Navas first half yesterday, nearly knocked him over ?
 
Great post OP. I have been saying the same thing for weeks but our management team/coaches cannot see it or can and wont change. If you win the midfield duel 9/10 you win the football match or at the least you do not lose. A change is needed if we are to make top 4.

Someone might have already covered this but the problem also lies with the pressing we do. You have either got to press as a whole team or not at all, it's no good 3/4/5 pressing high up and the rest sitting off, this is one of the reasons we are getting picked off, it is mind boggling the manager cannot see this.
 
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Im shocked its taken some people so long to realise what a few of us on here have been saying since day one about the way MP sets up his teams.....individuals are getting the blame (Mangala being the main one along with Yaya) but NO centre half wants midfielders and attackers running at them unopposed from the middle third of the pitch....the only defender that can cope with that is Kompany and even he will be undone by it at times.

MP and his system do not fit our players and never have done. This has been evident from day one but I thought he would either adapt his way of playing or buy the players to do what he wants. He has done neither and certain players have taken huge flack for it...especially mangala, bony (who clearly doesn't fit with our style of play) and yaya who is an absolute key p[layer for us but you either drop him or build a team around what he needs - again MP has done neither.

It was evident when we were playing well - the defensive frailties were obvious but rarely exposed as teams hadn't worked it out (or weren't brave enough to try) but it didn't take long for that to happen ( a few games in the Champs league showed the rest of the world how to do it)

`Once found out MP has stubbornly stuck to his plan A to our detriment

Agreed. The system has always left players exposed defensively as evident from the long punt upfield that caught us out against Villa in one of our first away games under Pellers. Nastasic was an early sacrifice to the system yet our defensive woes have progressively worsened irrespective of the personnel. Quite why management have not adapted (or at the very least paid more attention to the opposition strengths) or why we have not purchased players who could work within the system is baffling. Bony is an odd one because I was given to undertand that this was a specific request from Pellers. I have no issue with Bony but what exactly is his role? As much as Edin made you groan sometimes he did have a happy knack of scoring vital goals which Bony does not do. Its a weird one.

My biggest issue has always been the balance between attack and defence and the fact we no longer control games. I gave up on wishing for it a long time ago and frankly if you can bag a pot or two then I can live without it - well sort of. The final straw for me was conceding a goal to a fucking throw in. No professional football team should be that fucking incompetent. Pellers has been coaching this team for three years and that shit happens. Its beyond wrong. Its criminal negligence. We even had people on here trying to finess the bleeding obvious as to why Pellers was not presiding over a defensive shambles (something about our play restricting shots on target or something). Still that bollocks was good for a laugh if nothing else...but whatever. I'll cling to the CL campaign for the time being and watch reruns of the CC final. As for the rest just put it and us out of our fucking misery.
 

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