Spurs (A) | Post-Match Thread

[Dribble]

Zinchenko was also apparently not fully fit, Laporte hasn't even been training and Bernardo and Jesus was tactical I imagine.

Its impossible to say its solely down to just Pep making one decision. Pep has done plenty of things in the past that no one ever mentions when it goes well, when it goes badly it is "Pep overthinking it". Every team loses, its a game of football ffs.

Why are you still going on about last season. Move on.

However, I have no explanation for Fernandinho or Rodri not starting. I never stated I did. Fernandinho and Rodi played in the FA cup semi final and did fuck all and we lost, can you really blame Pep for not picking either a few weeks later?
Fernandinho played yesterday, what was the problem that time? Oh yeah, someone else fucked up.
As I said, despite the "brain farts" and "chess moves", if we have a world class striker I remember us creating at least one chance in all those games we lost that they probably put away. So then we would have won despite Peps best efforts at sabotaging us, what a victory that would be.

Had we won the CL final with Gundogan, would we have had people in here picking up on that tactical nuance and praised him for picking a more technically gifted DM instead of Fernandinho, would we fuck. That is football, we are the most bitter and fickle bastards in the world.

The CL final was a one off game against a very good opposition and not a single player stepped up, all 11 shit the bed in that game, end of. Move on.

How odd. It seems everyone else bar you had feelings of forebodings when Pep did what he did for the CL final. As for yesterday, you concentrate on Fern playing, but neglect to mention the defence behind him, which AGAIN gave many a feeling of foreboding.

The warning signs were there from the week before. Of the 5 at the back, 3 of them will probably be nowhere near our strongest line up when everyone is " match fit".

Please stop picking out the minutiae, & disregarding that big flippin elephant stood staring at you across the room. It's not that complicated. :-|

 

[citymad]

So Carabao Cup winners play in Community shield, do they?

I had heard of the Euros..I mentioned them in point 2.

no, which is another advantage for focusing on the Carabao cup.

 

[Dribble]

How long is the "start" of the season in your eyes?

In the 1st 3 league games (from a block of 5 inc LC) before the first international game we were miles off the pace physically but progressively got stronger. Whilst very dull at times,we lost just 1 of our next 18 games before Chelsea BUT mentally was mainly very good. Impossible to have the insanely good defensive figures we did during that spell without a strong mentality and a change of application with the drop of the press.

OK, so what was the crisis at Christmas Fernandinho spoke of? Or was he imagining our uninspiring season so far too? :-|

 

[OB1]

Hence he chose the CL Final as the first time he started a match without either Fern or Rodri starting. Why? We all knew what our strongest team was, so why choose that match to throw this huge curveball? Please explain. :-|

I could explain but I've done that more than once in the past given that I knew on the Thursday before the game what he was doing and why but that was last season; it's gone.

I'm only interested in this season now.

 

[Dribble]

I could explain but I've done that more than once in the past given that I knew on the Thursday before the game what he was doing and why but that was last season; it's gone.

I'm only interested in this season now.

OK, I didn't know as I'm not ITK. Perhaps you can enlighten me? :-|

 

[decmancity]

How odd. It seems everyone else bar you had feelings of forebodings when Pep did what he did for the CL final. As for yesterday, you concentrate on Fern playing, but neglect to mention the defence behind him, which AGAIN gave many a feeling of foreboding.

The warning signs were there from the week before. Of the 5 at the back, 3 of them will probably be nowhere near our strongest line up when everyone is " match fit".

Please stop picking out the minutiae, & disregarding that big flippin elephant stood staring at you across the room. It's not that complicated. :-|

I think Fernandinho should have started, but I put forward a reasonable reason why Pep didn't go with him but that seems so incomprehensible on here for some reason.

I agree. It is a cup game defense at best.

What exactly have I missed?

 

[JGL07]

I mean, this isn't "Just one game". We were shit towards the end of last season - and if the players are only gonna get up for UCL semi finals (The manager fucked us in the final) then we might as well fuck this league off right now.

Lets be honest - Cancelo has been gash since January. Mahrez can always go back to being Mahrez. Mendy is absolutely abominable. Gundogan - if we're being honest, has been on it since March. Jesus isn't a left winger, Sterling only plays well for England (and hasn't had one good game for us in 9 months). Ake is not Laporte.

I'm gonna get called a fucking mard arse here but I wanted to post this before the season and chickened out but i'm fucking angry with that shit.

You are a cheerful soul.

 

[Tom H Conwy exile]

Well, we will come good, I’ve no doubt about that. It’s tough at the moment, we got away with putting square pegs in round holes last season, will we get away with it this season, I doubt it. Kane’s the man we’ve hung our hat on, he’s a good player, let’s hope he’s the answer. Putting a bid in might help…

 

[BuzLightyear]

I mean, this isn't "Just one game". We were shit towards the end of last season - and if the players are only gonna get up for UCL semi finals (The manager fucked us in the final) then we might as well fuck this league off right now.

Lets be honest - Cancelo has been gash since January. Mahrez can always go back to being Mahrez. Mendy is absolutely abominable. Gundogan - if we're being honest, has been on it since March. Jesus isn't a left winger, Sterling only plays well for England (and hasn't had one good game for us in 9 months). Ake is not Laporte.

I'm gonna get called a fucking mard arse here but I wanted to post this before the season and chickened out but i'm fucking angry with that shit.

On the Jesus thing - he isn't a top striker either but, as a competitive, skillful, high energy player, and brave too, he has a role to play for us. Whether wide or midfield, I'd play him most games, supporting a new striker (Kane or otherwise)

Only Phil and Bernardo have a similar work rate, plus Jack in a different way. With Jesus,Foden (when fit), Grealish and Bernardo (if he stays) all playing, or at least all in the mix, we have the energy that's been missing plus a helluva lot of skill.

Add the new striker ( whoever he is ) and we are in business. Need to fit in KDB and Gundo of course plus a DM. But injuries and substitutions will come into it anyway. System? Flexible. Just get that energy and quick passing back into our game.

 

[Dribble]

I think Fernandinho should have started, but I put forward a reasonable reason why Pep didn't go with him but that seems so incomprehensible on here for some reason.

I agree. It is a cup game defense at best.

What exactly have I missed?

You've missed how out of step you seem to be with the mainstream fan opinion.

Again, can you explain why Pep chose the single most high profile match in our history to start without Fern or Rodri, having not done so all season?

If the defence on show on Sunday away at a hurting Spurs is a domestic cup defence, why take the chance when we had stronger options on the bench? Couldn't Pep have saved the cup defence for Norwich next week? :-|

 

[stevemacca]

I haven't read the full thread content so aopologise if this has been mentioned.

One thing I have noticed is that FFS is less effective through a game when Cancelo is playing, and thats because Cancelo is less likely to overlap preffering to come inside. This cuts off Mahrez's prefered route, but also the full back is always going inside without the threat of being caught out by overlapping full back.
Also when Cancelo is played the ball coming inside he's on his wrong foot and can only go one way, but Mahrez doesn't want the ball back outside as thats also on his wrong foot. Cancelo is better when Sterling is out right stretching the defense on his right foot.

 

[Manchester33]

I didn't think the performance was especially bad on Sunday. We controlled the game for the most part. We had a few good chances to score. The referee allowed their players to repeatedly foul us and break down play.

The glaring weakness in our team is upfront. Torres is a decent player, but he isn't going to score 20 goals a season yet. If we'd have had a fully fit Harry Kane up front for us, we would have won that game comfortably.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I didn't think the performance was especially bad on Sunday. We controlled the game for the most part. We had a few good chances to score. The referee allowed their players to repeatedly foul us and break down play.

The glaring weakness in our team is upfront. Torres is a decent player, but he isn't going to score 20 goals a season yet. If we'd have had a fully fit Harry Kane up front for us, we would have won that game comfortably.

Exactly. If we put our chances away we win that game comfortably.

Unfortunately we need 10 chances, and the way the game was officiated did not help us at all. Lost count of the number of opportunities we had to break quickly that were thwarted because they were allowed to foul with impunity. Our players knew what was going on and I guarantee it affected their decision making process.

 

[decmancity]

You've missed how out of step you seem to be with the mainstream fan opinion.

Again, can you explain why Pep chose the single most high profile match in our history to start without Fern or Rodri, having not done so all season?

If the defence on show on Sunday away at a hurting Spurs is a domestic cup defence, why take the chance when we had stronger options on the bench? Couldn't Pep have saved the cup defence for Norwich next week? :-|

Out of step? lol ok.

They both played shit against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi and he thought Gundogan would be better able to keep the ball and considering his goal scoring last year there was half a chance he would score. Is that a good enough explanation? I completely disagree with it but it is a possibility.

That being said, maybe Pep woke up one day and Fernandinho and Rodri hadn't made him a cup of tea like he asked so he kicked them to the bench, who fucking knows and who cares. Move on.

You take the chance because the other key starters are not 100% and you risk injuries, that then completely fuck us long term. Seems pretty reasonable and we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids (Son).

 

[the blue panther]

Out of step? lol ok.

They both played shit against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi and he thought Gundogan would be better able to keep the ball and considering his goal scoring last year there was half a chance he would score. Is that a good enough explanation? I completely disagree with it but it is a possibility.

That being said, maybe Pep woke up one day and Fernandinho and Rodri hadn't made him a cup of tea like he asked so he kicked them to the bench, who fucking knows and who cares. Move on.

You take the chance because the other key starters are not 100% and you risk injuries, that then completely fuck us long term. Seems pretty reasonable and we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids (Son).

Fair comment.
I suspect that many of us would have settled for a point. We take the defeat to heart because we know that the game was very winnable. Poor striking; kami-kaze defending; wierd referreeing decisions; lack of fitness; absence of star players; when these all combine as they did on Sunday, we were lucky to get away with only a 1-0 defeat.

 

[Dribble]

Out of step? lol ok.

They both played shit against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi and he thought Gundogan would be better able to keep the ball and considering his goal scoring last year there was half a chance he would score. Is that a good enough explanation? I completely disagree with it but it is a possibility.

That being said, maybe Pep woke up one day and Fernandinho and Rodri hadn't made him a cup of tea like he asked so he kicked them to the bench, who fucking knows and who cares. Move on.

You take the chance because the other key starters are not 100% and you risk injuries, that then completely fuck us long term. Seems pretty reasonable and we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids (Son).

But did you take into account the balance of the wholesale changes made for those matches? What you've just stated is akin to saying the U12's got battered by Chelsea, & Fern & Rodri were playing & were shit. Why don't you tell the whole story, so we've got the full context? :-|

So where did Pep state he played Gundog because he'd be better at keeping the ball & would stand half a chance of scoring ? Or are you merely dressing up your personal opinion as fact?

 

[salfordbluetrue]

Sorry i think Pep talked bollocks when making his excuse for picking a weakened side, Tottenham are faster and fitter that us ,we could not match them even if everyone was match fit, we beat them by putting our best team out and letting skill shine through,.
It is also worrying that our only striker is not starting and when it is obvious that others can not do the job he gets put on the wing? i do hope that Pep is not doing a Maureen and deliberately playing a weakened side so he gets his transfer money.

 

[OB1]

Out of step? lol ok.

They both played shit against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi and he thought Gundogan would be better able to keep the ball and considering his goal scoring last year there was half a chance he would score. Is that a good enough explanation? I completely disagree with it but it is a possibility.

That being said, maybe Pep woke up one day and Fernandinho and Rodri hadn't made him a cup of tea like he asked so he kicked them to the bench, who fucking knows and who cares. Move on.

You take the chance because the other key starters are not 100% and you risk injuries, that then completely fuck us long term. Seems pretty reasonable and we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids (Son).

Having lost two games in quick succession to Chelsea, he thought he needed to do something different and decided that would be a very attacking approach.It was a considered decision. It didn't work but it might have if Sterling had taken his early chance (perhaps Pep should have made him wear an England shirt under his City one!). It might have worked if the occasion had not go to the players.

What is certain is that it is history now and Pep and City have to do it all over again but with another year's experience behind them.

 

[decmancity]

But did you take into account the balance of the wholesale changes made for those matches? What you've just stated is akin to saying the U12's got battered by Chelsea, & Fern & Rodri were playing & were shit. Why don't you tell the whole story, so we've got the full context? :-|

So where did Pep state he played Gundog because he'd be better at keeping the ball & would stand half a chance of scoring ? Or are you merely dressing up your personal opinion as fact?

About 400m worth of players started that FA cup semi final including Laporte, Cancelo, Jesus, Dias, Sterling and KDB. Not bad for a U12's team.

I can't even remember how Rodri and Fernandinho played tbh, but clearly Pep wasn't happy and perhaps thought, I am not fucking watching that again next week.

You said

"Again, can you explain why Pep chose the single most high profile match in our history to start without Fern or Rodri, having not done so all season?"

I offered a potential explanation for why he picked Gundogan. So far, your reasoning has been "bRaINFarT". Pep has never publically stated why he did what he did, he doesn't need to.

For the last time, I have stated on multiple posts, I THINK IT WAS THE WRONG DECISION.

However, it is possible to put a reasoned argument forward that Pep thought Gundogan would be better than Rodri and Fernandinho.

Before we played Dortmund he said;

“I said many times the year we won the second Premier League that he was incredible as a holding midfielder."

Easy to see why he thought someone who is "incredible as a holding midfielder" might be decent enough to play as a holding midfielder in the CL final would you not say?

The way people talk about this decison its like we dropped Ederson and played Carson in goal with Samaras up top with KDB on the bench.

 

[razinho]

You've missed how out of step you seem to be with the mainstream fan opinion.

Again, can you explain why Pep chose the single most high profile match in our history to start without Fern or Rodri, having not done so all season?

If the defence on show on Sunday away at a hurting Spurs is a domestic cup defence, why take the chance when we had stronger options on the bench? Couldn't Pep have saved the cup defence for Norwich next week? :-|

I would agree with the sentiment that it's last season and over with but I'll give this a reply.

We played Chelsea in the league with Rodri in midfield - we lost. We played Chelsea in the FA Cup with both playing - we lost.

Is it out with the realms of logic that the greatest manager in the world looked at the two games against Tuchel and decided that rather than trying the same thing again, he would actually just play a complete possession type team to control the tempo and the match efficiently? It turned out to be the wrong choice but this hounding of Pep for trying something different is honestly rather boring now. As so often happens in football, if it came off he would be lauded as a genius and we would be continually going on about how great he is. In fact, if we would have played one or the other, I really wouldn't be surprised if people had a dig and asked why we played the same as other previous 2 defeats as it didn't turn out well in either occasion.

Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up, say the system didn't work, applaud our opponents for being better and get on with it. It appears you'll be using this as a beating stick for Pep which is completely your prerogative but fairly unfair imo considering how much success we've had, how many domestic records his teams have broken and how many times his system and tactics have paid off and ultimately changed the landscape of British football