Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[billymumphrey]

Rogue One was the best Star Wars film imo. I don't think camp humour belongs in a film with such stakes. You can have humour certainly, i mean the droid in Rogue One was funny af. There needs to be a certain tone though. The "droid rights" stuff was a weak attempt mixing humour with social politics as an example in tlj. I like gritty films with Rogue One giving me my grit fix. You get the right amount of character development and arcs. There is urgent and immediate threat throughout the film with Vader being shown as the super powerful unstoppable entity who rightly scares the shit out of everyone who is not him. I won't lie i was giddy as a pig in shit when he appeared at the end and fucked them all up.

I was very impressed with the end, if Jyn Urso kissed Cassian it would have shit on so much it aimed to achieve. It felt like a real universe, i felt like there were big fuck off battles happening all over the galaxy, it felt more real than any other film. I was sick of pristine palaces, i wanted people crawling in mud towards certain death.

Respectfully disagree. Where were the characters motivation and back stories? It was completely disjointed. We know that all the main characters die, simply because they are not mentioned at all in the original trilogy, therefore they need to establish why we as the audience actually give a shit about them. What happens to Jyn to change her mind that the plan is worth executing? Nothing. We have Cassian say "we've all made sacrifices for this" but the film does not delve into this so we dont know whats at stake, why he is motivated to do what he's doing apart from being a generic 'hero' in qa dirty dozen type suicide mission.

The mis-alignment in tone between the ending in this and the start of a New Hope is jarring in the extreme considered one starts a few hours after the end of the other. Knowing the ANH is canon, it is clear that the Vader scene is purely there for fan service, nothing else. The scene itself doesnt even make sense and has fundamental flaws in it such as why Vader doesn't just force grab the plans from the rebel soldiers hands. Noting all this it/s clear to see this scene for the cynical exercise it was.

 

[bluemonkey71]

Empire was the best of the lot. 1/2/3 was utter shit

 

[jimharri]

On a slight side note, Rey looks hot as fuck as a Sith lord.

You'd need to learn to sleep with one eye open.

 

[TCIB]

Respectfully disagree. Where were the characters motivation and back stories? It was completely disjointed. We know that all the main characters die, simply because they are not mentioned at all in the original trilogy, therefore they need to establish why we as the audience actually give a shit about them. What happens to Jyn to change her mind that the plan is worth executing? Nothing. We have Cassian say "we've all made sacrifices for this" but the film does not delve into this so we dont know whats at stake, why he is motivated to do what he's doing apart from being a generic 'hero' in qa dirty dozen type suicide mission.

The mis-alignment in tone between the ending in this and the start of a New Hope is jarring in the extreme considered one starts a few hours after the end of the other. Knowing the ANH is canon, it is clear that the Vader scene is purely there for fan service, nothing else. The scene itself doesnt even make sense and has fundamental flaws in it such as why Vader doesn't just force grab the plans from the rebel soldiers hands. Noting all this it/s clear to see this scene for the cynical exercise it was.

Hi @billymumphrey

The lore of the saga provides enough back story i think. You see Cassian at the beginning having to make a horrific choice. He has more of an arc in that single scene that Rey has had in 2 entire films so far. Just because you know they will die does not diminish the impact of the storyline imo. They do not have to establish the individual characters to a deep degree in this film as it effects a wider situation, they were cogs in a large machine, this film simply focused on that and did it very well. Jyn has as much investment in this war as anyone with as much development as anyone. The mission was bigger than any single character, that was the point of the film. It was never about "lets see this little detail" it is "how did we get to the next film". The originals barley touch most characters back story, less so than Jyn often. Who is Yoda, where is he from

The film is fast paced and hectic. Cassian is depicted perfectly fine. He is one of many dragged into a shit galaxy wide war, i really think you are missing the main thrust of this film and its aims. You can see in the film how his decisions have affected him. I think it is unfair to accuse this film of having low character development given the scope of the storyline. I can see Cassian is a regular bloke forced to do things that compromise his humanity, Jyn taking over from her father and his determination to not let the bad guys win.

The Vader scene maybe was fan service but it worked. Just go on youtube and see peoples reactions to that scene. It was fan service done right i think.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I think that's why I liked Rogue One so much -- it was more a study of what you give up -- in your future, and within yourself -- to be a part of a revolution that brings about positive change. It's a pretty difficult and conflicted existence, full of sacrifice of self, with "heroism" only being something that will be accorded to you after you're dead, with precious few moments to be personally happy. Effectively every character in the story is knee-deep in the muck. We only know about the eventual successful outcome of their self-sacrifice because we know the back story.

Rogue One was very good, easily in the top 3 for me. Yes, the Vader scene was a bit silly (although fun), and I found the droid annoying, but the rest was excellent, I thought, right down to the non-sappy ending.

I'm not expecting much from the next one - TFA was a remake of the first one, Last Jedi a big mess, Daisy Ridley doesn't have any presence beyond sticking her chin out to look determined,and John Boyega sometimes seems to be in a different style of film entirely.

 

[TCIB]

@billymumphrey I should note i am not a hardcore Star Wars fan. just of cinema in general. I always find myself appreciating films that adopt a more emotionally detached theme. It demands more focus then on great screenplay, scripting and acting should the story demand it i.e. not a basic cops and robbers flick from the 80's. Bringing deep emotion to screen i feel is very shallow in Star Wars to often with the original trilogy as guilty as any. It always needs the music to give emotional impact, or at least to often. It brings wonder to the fore well, but true emotion? not to sure about that. I suppose i am talking about Leia, Han and Luke here. That always seemed a bit half arsed and cheesy in the delivery on screen.

The second trilogy has aged better than i thought. If you take out Anakin and Padma's cringe worthy scenes and lines. When Anakin turns and Windoo gets fucked over, that had impact. You do have some decent acting from Ewan and Liam that helps that. i mean hell they have sir Christopher as a Sith, thats fucking badass and a great nod to hammer horror connections the film has simply due to Peter Cushing. Two of the finest actors i have ever watched put it down on screen.

 

[TCIB]

Rogue One was very good, easily in the top 3 for me. Yes, the Vader scene was a bit silly (although fun), and I found the droid annoying, but the rest was excellent, I thought, right down to the non-sappy ending.

I'm not expecting much from the next one - TFA was a remake of the first one, Last Jedi a big mess, Daisy Ridley doesn't have any presence beyond sticking her chin out to look determined,and John Boyega sometimes seems to be in a different style of film entirely.

Do you think Abrahms can do anything with Rey that will actually help at all, give some sort of arc for example?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Respectfully disagree. Where were the characters motivation and back stories? It was completely disjointed. We know that all the main characters die, simply because they are not mentioned at all in the original trilogy, therefore they need to establish why we as the audience actually give a shit about them. What happens to Jyn to change her mind that the plan is worth executing? Nothing. We have Cassian say "we've all made sacrifices for this" but the film does not delve into this so we dont know whats at stake, why he is motivated to do what he's doing apart from being a generic 'hero' in qa dirty dozen type suicide mission.

The mis-alignment in tone between the ending in this and the start of a New Hope is jarring in the extreme considered one starts a few hours after the end of the other. Knowing the ANH is canon, it is clear that the Vader scene is purely there for fan service, nothing else. The scene itself doesnt even make sense and has fundamental flaws in it such as why Vader doesn't just force grab the plans from the rebel soldiers hands. Noting all this it/s clear to see this scene for the cynical exercise it was.

That's a pretty meta criticism of the film. If you went and saw it knowing nothing of the canon, you'd come out of it awfully depressed -- and that's fine. And each character at one point or another describes his/her motivation, more or less. And it's made clear pretty early on -- there's an unspeakable, overwhelming evil with a stranglehold on the universe, and this lot is going to do what it can to hold that back, including self-sacrifice and including the slaughter of those who may just be caught up in the wheels of the juggernaut to satisfy a wider aim -- which in and of itself causes a lot of the characters moral qualms.

Rogue One is about smaller-than-life soldiers. The other movies are about larger-than-life (much larger) heroes and heroines. In fact, that's why I like ANH and the first 1/3 of TFA so much -- because the characters start small and get elevated. in RO, the characters start small and get dead. Basically, I'm not a fan of Jedi and Sith magic and pomposity, if I hadn't made that clear.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Do you think Abrahms can do anything with Rey that will actually help at all, give some sort of arc for example?

I assume there will be a heritage thing at some point, but doing it in one film will be a good trick after the apparent break in TLJ with Abrams' ideas. The character has been rather flat after a reasonable start, and needed something to tie her in in the second film really. The Vader/Luke reveal in ESB was important in giving a focus to Luke, but Rey has apparently picked up a lightsabre and read some books.

Whether the much fussed over the Palpatine laugh is important will be interesting. Abrams spent so much time in TFA harking back, it wouldn't be a surprise.

 

[TCIB]

You over thought it too much. It was a 2 hour setup to the new CGI bit of Vader that someone had done.

Cynical bastard, choke on your aspirations you son of a woman xD