Star Wars: Rogue One

Saw it on Saturday and I thought it was excellent. So much better than Force Awakens, too - if only Edwards had directed that as well.

FA was just one deus ex machina after another. Even in fantasy (which SW is; it's not sci-fi) you have to stick to the rules. By all means decide what those rules are, but you still must stick to them if you are to have a believable and coherent narrative. FA was a mess in that regards (indoctrinated Stormtrooper suddenly having a pang of conscience on his first mission; dyed-in-the-wool Imperial Captain lowering the shields without resisting; Falcon coming out of hyperspace into a planet's atmosphere; etc.).

In some ways Rogue One was perfect. I don't mean to say it's one of the best films ever made, or even the best SW film; I mean that in terms of achieving what it set out to do, and how it went about it, there's nothing that could be changed to make it better. I watch FA and the prequels and can think of many things I would change about them; with RO, I can't yet.

The acting was great, the pace was great, and the way it tied in with New Hope whilst mopping up the continuity mess left by the prequels (in which the Death Star was bizarrely suggested as being a Separatist/Geonosian design) was very impressive. Aesthetically it was spot on. I was also relieved that they didn't kiss at the end; it looked like they might for a moment and I was worried, because it would have added a cheesy, tired and unnecessary sub-plot.

I suppose my only nitpick was Cushing's face; it just looked weird and was off-putting. I don't think it was entirely necessary to include Tarkin. Leia's looked more convincing but I suspect they may have used some deleted scene footage of her and superimposed it in.

I would agree with most of this, but you are a bit hard on FA in my opinion, the reference to the force awakening is not about Rey it's about Finn, hence his sudden change, the clues are there, Kylo looking at him when he has his apithany, then snoke and Ren talk about the awakening long before Rey feels the force. Also only people stong with the force can so adeptly pick up a light sabre and wield in expertly as he does twice. Lastly when the star killer destroys the three systems Finn feels and hears their screams as he is boarding the cargo ship to the outer planets.
As for Phasma, she states that her troopers will defeat then and she is strong in that belief so shutting down a shield opposed to dying is plausable, if your conviction that your trained men are that good is there.

Thhe fact it was a rehash of a new hope is it's only critisism for me. still loved it though.
 
I saw it last night, and frankly do not see why everyone is holding it in such high acclaim. For specific reasons see below in the spoiler tags

Boring characters and piss poor characterisation - for a film where you know everyone is going to die, you sort of have to go out of your way to make the audience invest in the characters. There wasn't enough invested in the backstory for anyone to really give a shit about anyone. Jyn was one dimensional, Cassian harped on about "you're not the only one to have lost everything" although there's no fucking scene or backgrounding where we actually learn why. Figuring out character motivations and why they do the things they do is extremely hard, and really poor characterisation. Compare that to a New Hope where we know exactly why people are doing things, Luke wants to escape and have adventure, Ben needs to deal with his past, Han wants money, Leia has her obligation. Here characters aren't fleshed out and are so inconsistent in their actions it's painful to watch.

Lazy writing - there were a number of times throughout the movie where characters spoke to themselves, to move the plot along. It's a pet hate of mine in a lot of movies. Who sits there talking to themselves in real life? No one really, so why put it in a movie? It's because we haven't written it well and need to move the plot along by having a character say something.

Hammy dialogue - "we have hope!" - worst. "Don't choke on your ambition..." - how is that for subtlety? Blind guy annoyed at them putting a hood on his head. Anything the droid says. Just shitty comic relief.

Unnecessary fan service - to what end did having R2D2 and C3PO cameo add anything? Or all the other bits of fan service? Absolutely nothing.

Marketing - why, when in the original trilogy we really on had three types of stormtrooper (Normal, snow, jungle) we now had so many in the one movie. We went from two types of Tie fighters in the original, to having a heap here. A stupid excuse to sell more plastic tat. We don't see any of this in the original trilogy which starts when this ends, so why see them here?

Inconsistencies - there are so many instances where there are inconsistencies
  • Jyn shoots a droid and kills it with one shot to the shoulder. The same type of droid then gets shot about 50 times when he's hold off about 20 stormtroopers and is still functional.
  • Rebel council man "This guy attacked an imperial station directly, we don't want war. Lets retreat" Five minutes later "We have news, Rogue one has decided to attack an imperial station directly" councilmans response "Lets go to war!"
  • Darth Vader when chasing down the plans decides to force pull all the rebels weapons from their grasp. Decides against doing the same for the bloke who is holding the plans right in front of him.
  • One expendable Rebel sticks half his head around the bunker wall, gets shot. Blind dude walks out in the open for about 20 metres to flick switch, not a scratch.
  • Tarkin chastises Krennic all movie for security breaches and underestimating things, then proceeds to underestimate things when given the opportunity to destroy the fleet with the death star.
  • The complete shift in tone between how this movie ends, with Vader going nuts, to how he treats the exact same rebels when he boards the blockade runner in a new hope, which is hours/days/maybe a week after this movie ends.
 
I would agree with most of this, but you are a bit hard on FA in my opinion, the reference to the force awakening is not about Rey it's about Finn, hence his sudden change, the clues are there, Kylo looking at him when he has his apithany, then snoke and Ren talk about the awakening long before Rey feels the force. Also only people stong with the force can so adeptly pick up a light sabre and wield in expertly as he does twice. Lastly when the star killer destroys the three systems Finn feels and hears their screams as he is boarding the cargo ship to the outer planets.
As for Phasma, she states that her troopers will defeat then and she is strong in that belief so shutting down a shield opposed to dying is plausable, if your conviction that your trained men are that good is there.

Thhe fact it was a rehash of a new hope is it's only critisism for me. still loved it though.

I'm adamant that the awakening was about Finn too, but many are saying Rey. I hope Finn's arc means he becomes a jedi too - else I'll find his battle with Ren infuriating if it leads to nothing. (If he can't use the force then he shouldn't be able to wield the saber in the first place).
 
I saw it last night, and frankly do not see why everyone is holding it in such high acclaim. For specific reasons see below in the spoiler tags

Boring characters and piss poor characterisation - for a film where you know everyone is going to die, you sort of have to go out of your way to make the audience invest in the characters. There wasn't enough invested in the backstory for anyone to really give a shit about anyone. Jyn was one dimensional, Cassian harped on about "you're not the only one to have lost everything" although there's no fucking scene or backgrounding where we actually learn why. Figuring out character motivations and why they do the things they do is extremely hard, and really poor characterisation. Compare that to a New Hope where we know exactly why people are doing things, Luke wants to escape and have adventure, Ben needs to deal with his past, Han wants money, Leia has her obligation. Here characters aren't fleshed out and are so inconsistent in their actions it's painful to watch.

Lazy writing - there were a number of times throughout the movie where characters spoke to themselves, to move the plot along. It's a pet hate of mine in a lot of movies. Who sits there talking to themselves in real life? No one really, so why put it in a movie? It's because we haven't written it well and need to move the plot along by having a character say something.

Hammy dialogue - "we have hope!" - worst. "Don't choke on your ambition..." - how is that for subtlety? Blind guy annoyed at them putting a hood on his head. Anything the droid says. Just shitty comic relief.

Unnecessary fan service - to what end did having R2D2 and C3PO cameo add anything? Or all the other bits of fan service? Absolutely nothing.

Marketing - why, when in the original trilogy we really on had three types of stormtrooper (Normal, snow, jungle) we now had so many in the one movie. We went from two types of Tie fighters in the original, to having a heap here. A stupid excuse to sell more plastic tat. We don't see any of this in the original trilogy which starts when this ends, so why see them here?

Inconsistencies - there are so many instances where there are inconsistencies
  • Jyn shoots a droid and kills it with one shot to the shoulder. The same type of droid then gets shot about 50 times when he's hold off about 20 stormtroopers and is still functional.
  • Rebel council man "This guy attacked an imperial station directly, we don't want war. Lets retreat" Five minutes later "We have news, Rogue one has decided to attack an imperial station directly" councilmans response "Lets go to war!"
  • Darth Vader when chasing down the plans decides to force pull all the rebels weapons from their grasp. Decides against doing the same for the bloke who is holding the plans right in front of him.
  • One expendable Rebel sticks half his head around the bunker wall, gets shot. Blind dude walks out in the open for about 20 metres to flick switch, not a scratch.
  • Tarkin chastises Krennic all movie for security breaches and underestimating things, then proceeds to underestimate things when given the opportunity to destroy the fleet with the death star.
  • The complete shift in tone between how this movie ends, with Vader going nuts, to how he treats the exact same rebels when he boards the blockade runner in a new hope, which is hours/days/maybe a week after this movie ends.

Fuck me i bet you're fun to go to the cinema with...

Most people see it as an exciting, visually stunning, immersive movie that enhances the SW mythology incredibly well, introducing new characters that serve their purpose in the context of the film and the SW universe as a whole.

Honestly, you sound like you go into the cinema with a clipboard and checklist!
 
I'm adamant that the awakening was about Finn too, but many are saying Rey. I hope Finn's arc means he becomes a jedi too - else I'll find his battle with Ren infuriating if it leads to nothing. (If he can't use the force then he shouldn't be able to wield the saber in the first place).
Not true he can wield a saber at the end of the day it's just a sword, similar to the stormtooper he fought with the club/sword, whether he's any good with it could mean anything, a lightsaber is made by a Jedi as a right of passage and they use the force to do it, Finn didn't make it he just turned it on.
 
Not true he can wield a saber at the end of the day it's just a sword, similar to the stormtooper he fought with the club/sword, whether he's any good with it could mean anything, a lightsaber is made by a Jedi as a right of passage and they use the force to do it, Finn didn't make it he just turned it on.

Though non force sensitive people have used light sabres (han, grievas and Pri Vizsla) 2 were trained in there use and Han clumsily sliced open a taumtaum. For Finn to have twice wielded one so effortlessly would indicate strong force sensitivy and bear in mind in his back story he is the top of his class in the first order academy, something that in stories from the rebels series generally indicated a link to the force. As I said he hears the screams of the people of the hosnian system similar to obi wan in ANH.
Add that to Kylo Rens stare at him and then automatically knowing he was the stormtrooper who freed Poe.

In the lore lightsabres are considered too complicated and difficult to be used without the use of the force with only few exceptions
 
Wow wow wow.

That was everything TFA wasn't. Simply stunning from start (well, about 15 mins in) to finish. Don't think I blinked for the last 45 mins.
 
Fuck me i bet you're fun to go to the cinema with...

Most people see it as an exciting, visually stunning, immersive movie that enhances the SW mythology incredibly well, introducing new characters that serve their purpose in the context of the film and the SW universe as a whole.

Honestly, you sound like you go into the cinema with a clipboard and checklist!

Not at all, I just appreciate good writing, characterisation and storytelling, which this movie was completely disjointed in trying to achieve. This movie was fan service vignettes cobbled together by a very flimsy story, which I felt in many respects insults the the viewers intelligence.
 

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