Earlyriser
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- 21 Feb 2025
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- Manchester City
'can you explain the doubling of knife crime since stop and search was stopped then'
Your own post timed at 9.21
Mods that's me finished on this
Stop and search argument from another thread.
- Thread starter .db.
- Start date
Your own post timed at 9.21
Mods that's me finished on this
cleavers
Moderator
Can you do as asked now, or I'll start issuing thread bans.
I've reported some of the posts for the attention of Ric, so he's aware of the requests I have made.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
Those aren't like-for-like statistics though, as there was a reclassification of these types of offences from 2017 due to different reporting standards among different police forces. That standardisation resulting in significantly higher reported offences when compared with the previous lack of a standard reporting method.
BerkshireBlue
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- 4,484
wrong, it's one police force
Firstly - Stop and search hasn't been stopped. In fact the government only a few years ago increased police's power to do it, it's just fallen out of use because it wasn't the solution people thought it would be when brought in.
Secondly - Correlation =/= causation. Since the peak of stop and search in 2009 we are down over 20,000 police officers, there's been a 40% drop in the amount of money spent on mental health services, and 1 million more people are in persistant poverty. All of which are directly linked to crime figures.
Thirdly - I'm not sure I accept your figure of knife crime doubling - knife homicides are down 20% and knife-caused hospital admissions are down 10%. Those are black and white figures that can't be manipulated by changes in charging policies or crime categorisation.
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Stop and Search has not ended, has it? still in prevalent use
Uncle Wally One Ball
Well-Known Member
No it hasnt
cleavers
Moderator
Since you can't do as asked, I'll take the inititative, keep it in here please.
roubaixtuesday
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I'm probably just a snowflake, but I do find it quite incredible to be accused of spreading disinformation for posting an ONS analysis of knife crime.
The other thread was full of people making assertions about levels of knife crime going through the roof without any evidence.
So... FWIW, my noddy and naive search for evidence turned up
(1) On overall national knife crime levels - roughly static for the last few years (excl a dip for COVID)
(2) On the claim that stop and search changes resulted in doubled knife crime in London
Academic research that seems to show there is indeed a link from stop and search to knife crime, but not I think as dramatic as claimed.
statistically significant reductions in knife murders and injuries in response to increased SSEs. Specifically, if SSEs were conducted at the 2008–2011 rate of 45,000 per month, there would be an estimated 30 fewer knife murders per year. (SSE = stop and search encounter)
link.springer.com
Interested to see if others have better/different sources. I'd guess there are particular areas/neighbourhoods where the picture could be quite different?
The other thread was full of people making assertions about levels of knife crime going through the roof without any evidence.
So... FWIW, my noddy and naive search for evidence turned up
(1) On overall national knife crime levels - roughly static for the last few years (excl a dip for COVID)
(2) On the claim that stop and search changes resulted in doubled knife crime in London
Academic research that seems to show there is indeed a link from stop and search to knife crime, but not I think as dramatic as claimed.
statistically significant reductions in knife murders and injuries in response to increased SSEs. Specifically, if SSEs were conducted at the 2008–2011 rate of 45,000 per month, there would be an estimated 30 fewer knife murders per year. (SSE = stop and search encounter)
Did More Stop and Search by Police Cause Less Knife Injury in London? Evidence from 2008–2023 - Journal of Quantitative Criminology
Objectives This study investigates the impact of police stop and search encounters (SSEs) on knife injuries and homicides in public places in London. While prior research has studied SSE impact on crime in general, we focus specifically on SSE relations to weapon-related injuries and deaths...
link.springer.com
Interested to see if others have better/different sources. I'd guess there are particular areas/neighbourhoods where the picture could be quite different?
hilts
Well-Known Member
Im not overly interested in arguing about stats and graphs so can I put forward a more common sense argument
Good copper
Knows his area
Knows the wrongs uns, Knows their history
Stop and searches the known wrong uns on a regular basis
How could this not reduce knife crime?
Good copper
Knows his area
Knows the wrongs uns, Knows their history
Stop and searches the known wrong uns on a regular basis
How could this not reduce knife crime?
cleavers
Moderator
This is now "the other thread", the thread this was removed from was about multiple stabbing's by one man, on our public transport system, and the heroes that defended ordinary people, some at great personal expense.
You and others decided to turn it into a politically driven squabble about knife crime (mainly in London), despite requests to take it elsewhere.
You and others continued to derail that thread, so here we are, and strangely enough the squabble seems to have petered out, despite all those posts still being in this thread.
I have sympathy for the mod team when a big event happens (although it also seems obvious that the worst knife attack in this country in years would spring some debate about knife crime) but to be honest it seems like you're now derailing another thread bringing it up again and commenting about something not on the topic of this thread.
Also there were a lot more than 2 pages of people making assertions about levels of crime in this country, the demographics who commit crime etc. in the aftermath of the attack, so I don't know if the mods just removed them totally, but they didn't all end up in here (not that we need another 5 pages of baseless assertions in this thread)
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
Start of original thread was full of racist ant immigrant shit. There were pages of it until the facts came out. All the shit they posted has now disappeared, along with a few posts taking the wankers on.
I'd like it all back to show us which posters are full of shit and we get a chance to point it out.