Sturgeon wants another referendum

CitizenTID said:
@Magicpole Exactly - the U.K. voted not "Scotland and the rest of the U.K." If James VI/I had decided to dissolve England & Wales into the Kingdom of Scotland - whose vote would you be referring to there as "we"?

What will an independent Scotland in the EU mean to you if in 50 years time Scotland has developed an economy worthy of an independent country to support itself, relying on influxes of EU workers (remember you only have a 3m population now). Scottish parliament is no longer full of angry Scots but has as many MPs who are settlers from the EU/foreign born descendants who don't share your sense of Scottishness - or toy throwing English that moved to Scotland to be in the EU. Edinburgh is now another London so there are more of the Scottish population voting for Tory style politics.

Now your reasons for independence are nulled. Was it worth it?
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Think there might be nearly 5.3 million, and if non Scots-born people do become MSPs, I'm sure they'll soon become angry; after all, it's part of the national psyche. :-)
 
Magicpole said:
She could refuse, but she can't. Hiw can an unelected Prime Minister refuse an elected one who has a manifesto pledge to adhere to?

She won't refuse, she will try to set the timing but that again is a dangerous game and will play into the hands of proof that regardless what we vote for means nothing if Westminster doesn't agree.

The ref should be after the deal is known, which will obviously be before we actually leave in two years. To think that we will hang about a further two years is not going to happen.
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Did not see much evidence today of the PM being cowed by the FM into granting a referendum.

May said:

"As we face this great national moment together, I hope you will continue to play your part in the great national effort we need to build the stronger Britain, the fairer Britain, the more outward-looking Britain and the more united Britain that I am determined we should be once we emerge from this period of national change," said the prime minister.

Downing Street refused to respond to a request for comment on the meeting, however, earlier in the day, May told broadcast journalists that she stood by her comments from earlier in the month on another referendum.

The prime minister said: "My position isn't going to change, which is that now is not the time to be talking about a second independence referendum."

Perhaps Nicola forgot to play her trump card - you know the one about:

"How can an unelected Prime Minister refuse an elected one who has a manifesto pledge to adhere to?"
 
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ayrshire_blue said:
Brilliant news for us.

After all, in 2014 one of the 2 main cases for staying in the UK (The other being the currency issue) was the only way to be certain of staying in the EU was to vote No.

Now that the goalposts have been completely shifted, there is absolutely a mandate for a second referendum.

I sincerely hope my countrymen and woman get it right this time round.

Time to get away from the ever growing far right wing minded lunatics voting for the other far right wing lunatics to govern our country. A clear divide has developed between what is wanted North and South of the border.

#StillYes.
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You still won't be in the EU if you vote yes. You'll never offer enough for them to want Scotland.

The most sectarian place in the UK is Glasgow, after Belfast, so think before you call us lunatics.
 
Robinho's Subbuteo said:
So, the Scots voted against independence from the UK but they want to be regarded as independent when it comes to the EU? Do they just want to dip in and out of being in the UK when it suits?
Hmmmm.
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I think you're right.

The only reason they want to keep the sterling is so all the Poundstretchers up there won't close.
 
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This whole thing is like me drinking in the street even though a local by-law forbids it because I didn't vote for the party which controls the council.

All very divisive. Where does this 'self rule' malarkey end? Smaller and smaller groups wanting to make their own rules. Eventually it's every man for himself and anarchy takes over.
 
masterwig said:
This whole thing is like me drinking in the street even though a local by-law forbids it because I didn't vote for the party which controls the council.

All very divisive. Where does this 'self rule' malarkey end? Smaller and smaller groups wanting to make their own rules. Eventually it's every man for himself and anarchy takes over.
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Fish Face wants to have her cake and eat it. Keep the pound; stay in the EU; write the Scottish share of the national debt. I suppose she'll also want us to carry on paying the Barnet formula money?
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Fish Face wants to have her cake and eat it. Keep the pound; stay in the EU; write the Scottish share of the national debt. I suppose she'll also want us to carry on paying the Barnet formula money?
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Oh don't worry about that. The scots will never agree to give up suckling on the Westminster teat. Never.

They want independence but they want me and you to underwrite it and pay them for the privilege.

It is the only time in my life when I am kind of glad we have a Tory government as I hope if they vote yes, they are given a hard yes. As in: "okay fair enough. You're independent. You better find a currency cos the pound is the United Kingdom's, Barnet formula no longer exists. You voted for it, you pay for it. Anyway we can't stop here chatting it through, we have a load of extra money to spend on the rest of the union now we're no longer paying for you "

That and Brexit and I may just believe I've died and gone to heaven.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
It is the only time in my life when I am kind of glad we have a Tory government as I hope if they vote yes, they are given a hard yes. As in: "okay fair enough. You're independent. You better find a currency cos the pound is the United Kingdom's, Barnet formula no longer exists. You voted for it, you pay for it. Anyway we can't stop here chatting it through, we have a load of extra money to spend on the rest of the union now we're no longer paying for you "
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A bit like we will pay for Brexit when the EU gives us our "hard yes".

I live and work up here in Scotland and my kids are Scottish. I don't have any particular desire to break up the union, and don't especially like the SNP, but I have a lot of sympathy with the view up here that the Tories view Scotland as a foreign country and don't feel they need to represent Scottish interests.
 
bobom said:
A bit like we will pay for Brexit when the EU gives us our "hard yes".
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Not quite. The SNP are of the opinion that they can take their share of the assets of the UK, whilst not being responsible for any of the liabilities. The EU seem to think that the UK doesn't have any right to EU assets, yet is responsible for liabilities.

I suspect the reality less somewhere between the two: some assets and some liabilities.
 
bobom said:
A bit like we will pay for Brexit when the EU gives us our "hard yes".

I live and work up here in Scotland and my kids are Scottish. I don't have any particular desire to break up the union, and don't especially like the SNP, but I have a lot of sympathy with the view up here that the Tories view Scotland as a foreign country and don't feel they need to represent Scottish interests.
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The Torys don't represent Scottish interests?? Really. Your own parliament and a 20% subsidy of UK GDP greater than that spent in the English regions with all the benefits that go with that and all sustained by successive UK government's regardless of political stance. Yet another deluded missinformed Scot.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The Torys don't represent Scottish interests?? Really. Your own parliament and a 20% subsidy of UK GDP greater than that spent in the English regions with all the benefits that go with that and all sustained by successive UK government's regardless of political stance. Yet another deluded missinformed Scot.
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Notwithstanding your abuse (and the fact that you clearly misread my post), yes: as far as Brexit is concerned, the UK government appears to have decided that it can't make Scotland happy on Brexit and won't even try. There has been no serious response to Scotland's white paper on Brexit, and little recognition that Scotland's needs are quite different from those of other UK regions: it has need for more immigration on economic ground, for example. Day-to-day government relations with Whitehall on non- Brexit issues are getting more and more difficult, as the civil service diverts more and more resources to Brexit.
Personally, I find the "head" argument for independence weaker than two years go. The "heart" arguments are getting stronger and the countries drifting apart.
 
bobom said:
Notwithstanding your abuse (and the fact that you clearly misread my post), yes: as far as Brexit is concerned, the UK government appears to have decided that it can't make Scotland happy on Brexit and won't even try. There has been no serious response to Scotland's white paper on Brexit, and little recognition that Scotland's needs are quite different from those of other UK regions: it has need for more immigration on economic ground, for example. Day-to-day government relations with Whitehall on non- Brexit issues are getting more and more difficult, as the civil service diverts more and more resources to Brexit.
Personally, I find the "head" argument for independence weaker than two years go. The "heart" arguments are getting stronger and the countries drifting apart.
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Im an Englishman living and working in Scotland and my twins are Scottish but please dont make the mistake of thinking the SNP speaks for Scotland as they dont.

They speak for themselves and their one single aim in life.

Anything else is used for political purpose to get that one aim done.
 
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