Sturgeon wants another referendum

mcfc1632 said:
TBF, I do not really understand your response to my post.

What I was saying is that the vast majority of UK population - the really really vast majority - like about 95% - simply do give not much of a fuck about the SNP demands about what should be happening in the period up 2021 - there is simply not any interest let alone appetite, to pander to the SNP view of their own self-importance.

How can you not understand - we are involved in negotiating the Brexit arrangements during this period and there is no space for distractions on niche and generally unimportant issues

And as for:

"...............shouldn't be our issue because you voted for it we didn't." - well sorry - tough fucking luck. With regard the Brexit vote, WE = the UK and WE did vote for it. There are a load of people in England, Wales and N.I. that did not vote for it either but the majority of the UK, which includes Scotland, did. They now need to hope that we end up with a positive Brexit outcome even though they did not vote for it. Guess what? - so do you guys, so it would be best to just get over yourselves.

and

"We made it a ref trigger and said what we would do........" well what the fuck - of any actual consequence - does that really mean??? you can DO the square root of fuck all apart from rant on about your angst in public and in private bemoan the fact that you (the SNP) know that you are fucked because, as the ex-President might have said, you are back of the line at the moment. Your challenge is how to keep the topic relevant for 4 years and move the majority Scottish position to a Yes vote.

Good luck with that seeing as you have not been able to achieve that even in recent months when the conditions have been most favourable. So how are you going to achieve that in 2021 when:

a) we (the UK) will have left the EU
b) you (Scotland) will not have a guaranteed accession deal and
c) you therefore face risk to what is 'off the scale' your largest export market - immediately after having left the EU!!

as I say, good luck with that.

All the SNP bleating might be food and drink to the SNP followers - to the other 95% of us it is just fatuous moaning, akin to what you might expect from spoilt brats.

There is actually - fuck all you, the SNP, can do and actually fuck all that the UK government actually has to do other than to ignore the 'baby in the corner'.
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Best post I have read today. Well done sir!
 
I think that the SNP Manifesto claims the right to a new referendum,IF it is the preferred option of a majority of Scottish People.So do they have to have a referendum to find out if they have a majority,then if granted another referendum to gain Independence.PS who is paying for it.PPS Has the SNP forfilled all its manifesto "promises".Or is it "This looks a goer we will pick this part".
 
sir baconface said:
Perhaps we should be honouring Jezza's manifesto pledges too.
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Yeah, let's take into account Jezza's demands for subs with no weapons, anyone on earth free to settle in the UK,
and other exciting pledges, then we'll have to consider giving space to Tiny Tim's LibDem demands for another referendum
if we quit the single market. Don't forget the Greens demands for nothing but wind and wave power, everyone must be given something
FFS.
 
Watching the debate in the scottish parliament, snp msp's talking plenty about teresa may wanting to take powers from the scottish parliament and little about rejoining or staying in the eu (the reason sturgeon gives for wanting another referendum). They also deny that the opinion polls all show little appetite for another referendum but they press on regardless. What a shower of cunts they are.
 
blue cigar said:
Watching the debate in the scottish parliament, snp msp's talking plenty about teresa may wanting to take powers from the scottish parliament and little about rejoining or staying in the eu (the reason sturgeon gives for wanting another referendum). They also deny that the opinion polls all show little appetite for another referendum but they press on regardless. What a shower of cunts they are.
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Fuck me mate, how boring is your life to watch the debate in the scottish parliament? BTW have they got subtitles, might take a look ;)
 
Magicpole said:
Yes I have. And it may well turn out that way. That's not the point I'm making.

I'm making the point that it has a mandate and it's a manifesto pledge.

Not what the outcome will be.
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I thought you was a minority now and would have to rely on the Greens to break their manifesto promise to support a ref. only if popular support existed.
 
pee dubya said:
I feel like you're misreading things.



What does this even mean? Scottishness doesn't exist? Clearly it does, now. Identities are not set in stone, they evolve and develop over time.



I'm sorry but that's not our problem, it's yours. We live in a democracy, you can have devolution in the North of England, why not? If people want it enough, fight for it (not literally of course).



For many folk up here it's the societal chasm that's the issue, rather than any sort of idealistic patriotism. Clearly there's an element of that also, but I think it's over-estimated. Before the referendum some of the polls went as low as 25% for independence, a portion (not all) of them will be your die-hard patriotic braveheart fannies.

SNP politicians are by enlarge much more relate-able to me (and Scottish politicians in general) and as a party it feels much more open and accessible. This is why you'll find people voting for the SNP who are not necessarily in favour of independence. They might not be perfect, but I at least feel that they actually represent us and are fighting our corner against the political elite. My local MP until recently was Mhairi Black, walk into any pub, shop or on any street and you'll find people just like her. I went to the same university as 'wee Nicky Sturgeon' (whose parents are an electrician and a dental nurse), as can almost anyone. She got married in a pub just down the road from me.

Again, I can only speak for myself and the people I know, we have nothing against England or Britain, or whatever. But when you continually see the likes of Theresa May, George Osbourne, David Cameron etc in Government, forgive us for feeling like Westminster does not really represent us or our best interests. When you see the UK voting for Brexit, it doesn't make us feel especially British.

Fair enough I can understand why people don't like the SNP, they're not on your side. You need to find your own representatives, don't be angry at us for having ours.
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I wrote a big in-depth post on p.65 going which covers the false sense of identity I mention - not Scottishness but what Scottishness is. Yes they evolve and develop but it's the SNP's (and similar self-determination group's) hyperdrive revivalism to the point of falsity pulling the wool over the eyes of Scottish people to attain their one agenda.

You have devolvement thanks to an agenda set by a combined groups of people propagating celtic revivalism and self-determination (the Celtic League) which has led to the point of people thinking they are of a different ethnicity to those within English territory which an endless list of flaws I can't be bothered going down that route. It takes plenty effort to grasp close a true sense of British and Irish history, hence people that don't make the effort gloss over a lot of things and end up with false interpretations of history. We don't have the platform for the level of devolvement you have because you have it on the back of still being referred to as a country and ultimately, people in the North would prefer to work within Britain as a whole.

It's not about the economic, voting or societal differences for SNP is it? Because if it were they would lobby on behalf of the people of Britain - their only agenda is to break Scotland away from the U.K. Scotland has always been and will always be British, in whatever political format because you can't get away from the fact you are the head of an island called Britain. The stance many Scots take of adamantly going against the idea they're British is laughable and reeks of taking a page out of the book of the Irish who can say it. If Scots such as many of the Celtic fans that think they are predominantly the descendants of Ulster gaels why not move to Ulster and swing a border poll there instead of breaking up our island whilst supporting a united Ireland? I've seen several Scots make comments mocking "English commenters thinking the U.K. is a country," which is moronic in it's irony. Don't be one to tell me stuff like Braveheart hasn't fuelled this for a lot (a Scot raised "the Braveheart feeling" about May's recent comments on the One Show before) - its another part of that recurring theme in modern society of people not thinking for themselves in a similar vein to celebrity culture - it's been on TV, follow the narrative set and what everyone else is doing - sheep theory is this called or something? This isn't the main issue of what I was talking about but it plays a big part.

I know a big percentage vote SNP for local politics rather than for independence but save the stuff about them being normal working class people - they trotted that out when May became PM with her dad being a vicar or Hilary Clinton in the US. Wherever they came from, these people haven't shown any sense of moral decency or loyalty to their people when in office.

Westminster represents you as much as it represents someone in the south of England - everyone's area is represented. The UK voting for Brexit doesn't make you feel particularly British? You mean because for many it's about putting British people first because so many feel utterly neglected by their own government - the same problems you feel but for which this is their platform to get their voice heard? I think I'm quite disappointed the indyref is as supported as it is as i thought the Scots had more fight in 'em and principles aligned with Northerners but because of what i've touched on I think there's deeper issues to it. It seems a bit cowardly to me to just cut loose and f*ck everyone else.
 
sir baconface said:
Hey, magic, it's one thing to ask for independence. It's another to claim it retrospectively.
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@Magicpole Exactly - the U.K. voted not "Scotland and the rest of the U.K." If James VI/I had decided to dissolve England & Wales into the Kingdom of Scotland - whose vote would you be referring to there as "we"?

What will an independent Scotland in the EU mean to you if in 50 years time Scotland has developed an economy worthy of an independent country to support itself, relying on influxes of EU workers (remember you only have a what, 5m population now)? Scottish parliament is no longer full of angry Scots but has as many MPs who are settlers from the EU/foreign born descendants who don't share your sense of Scottishness - or toy throwing English that moved to Scotland to be in the EU. Edinburgh is now another London so there are more of the Scottish population voting for Tory style politics.

Now your reasons for independence are nulled. Was it worth it?
 
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