kinkladz-ade
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2012
- Messages
- 1,226
Hi I'm kinkladz-ade. You may remember me from such threads as "If you could choose one super power" and "Say something nice about a poster"...
Anyway, I always read with great interest the threads on here about Islam, extremism and just generally religion/beliefs. I have been meaning to write about my thoughts/experiences and after some encouragement from some of my favourite posters (and Drone) here they are:
I am a muslim whose family migrated to England in 1986, I was 8 at the time. We have a lot of family back in Pakistan and tend to visit every year or two. I feel I can talk from the point of view of a muslim, immigrant yet also a Brit.
British and proud
First of all, I love this country. We moved here because my dad got cancer (in 1986) and was told his best option was to move back to England (as he was an English citizen) and get treatment here. He managed to prolong his life for a few years by us moving here. So I would step in front of a train to protect our amazing NHS and it is one of the many reasons why I love this country(see Greatest Country in the World thread for full list :-) ). Most muslim people of Asian descent will rightly tell you that we came here for a better life and that's exactly what England has provided for us. I don't see myself as British/Pakistani or a British/Muslim I am simply British.
Extremism
Like I have mentioned in another thread, people with extreme views have been around a long time. About 12 years ago I was walking down the street with a friend and there was a guy giving out flyers about Israel. He asked if I wanted to learn about what was happening over there. I said yes. So he went on to tell me about the Israeli occupation of Palestine and how badly the Palestinian people were being treated. I agreed they were being treated badly. Then he went on to say that muslims should go to Israel and fight and even mentioned bombing them. So being a sane person this angered me and I stated that there is never any way to justify killing people. I asked him his reasoning. He said "Doesn't Islam teach you to treat all muslims as brothers and sisters?". "Yes" I said. "Doesn't Islam say you should protect your family from harm?" "Doesn't Islam teach you that whenever you see cruelty and injustice you should stand up for the weak?" and so on ....
I could see how he had taken core good Islamic values and twisted them to build a case for fighting so I argued this. For 45 mins I argued with this guy and it ended up with me shouting in his face "There is no justification for killing innocent people! You are twisting Islam to justify bombing innocents! You are a disgrace!" So there I was in the middle of the high street shouting at him, my mate pulling me back saying "leave it Ade you know what these people are like". I can see how these guys have succeeded in brainwashing some people because he made his argument in such a calm and collected way and seem to have an answer for anything I said even though what he was saying was ridiculous.
There is a terrorist fighting this so called "Jihad" in Syria right now called Kabir Ali. I went to college with his brother Sagir (that gives you an idea of this inbred family, that the parents came out with Sagir for the first kid and then thought of Kabir for the second). Anyway, Sagir was a useless, lazy idiot and dropped out in the first year. My brother and I went to see him after he stopped going to classes and he was spending his days sleeping in the day and smoking weed at night. We asked him if he was going to get a job and he said "Been for interviews, but didn't get anything. They are all racist and don't want to employ pakis" My brother just said "Is everyone racist or are you just a stupid lazy, uneducated twat who hasn't worked a day in his life?" and we walked out.
So when we saw that Kabir was in Syria with IS my brother said it perfectly "Fucking bastard. Hates this country does he? I bet his whole family are happy taking benefits. Never worked a day is his life but is happy to blame the world for his problems. Let the guy back in England and put him straight into a cell"
Now my brother is a guy who has a full time job, and a part time job in the evenings, hardest working guy I have ever know and a very softly spoken guy. I can tell you that these people anger and sicken most muslims as much as they do anyone else.
Pakistan has had more then its share of Taliban terrorist attacks since helping the Americans fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Its on our front door in Islamabad:
My uncle worked in the reception of Marriot hotel, he finished his shift, left for home and one hour later it was bombed killing 52 people:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...riott-hotel-bomb-killed-52-says-Pakistan.html
If he had worked the evening shift he would have died. So I ask you what do you think my family/friends, all the muslim people in our community think of these extremists?
My father in law owns a clothes shop and was on his way to work, when he heard that the shops in the street behind his had been bombed. Really shook him up when he saw the devastation. So, what you do you think my wife's family, all those normal muslims think of extremists?
Fight against Extremism
Why aren't thousands of muslims getting together and marching against extremism? Well, I will speak for myself. There are many things that shock and anger me: world poverty, peodophiles, murderers, the slow privatisation of the NHS by the Tories, the bake off scandal and of course extremists.
These are all so obviously wrong. Everyone knows the evil of peodos, murderers, extremists. Did the catholic community organise a march to show that they think that abusing kids is wrong? Did they bloody need to? Do muslims need to march across London to show they think beheading innocent journalists is wrong? Do you bloody need to when its obvious every normal person of every belief knows that its evil. If the world took the money that is spent in one year on wars we could end world poverty. That is a fact. Why aren't we all marching about this?
Muslims don't fight extremism you say? I fight it is many ways, from educating my kids to treat every human being as equal, to not see race, colour, gender and judge people by their actions. In many cases I have seen that extremist views come from a lack of education and whenever I have encountered these people I have tried to educate them. I work in IT but I teach maths privately in the evenings/weekends and I am well know among my students as the teacher who gives lectures about how important education is, about how you can only achieve anything in life through hard work. I talk to anyone who has any hateful views and try to change their opinion.
For those talking about this country filling with terrorists I can tell you that I have lived in London, Manchester, Sheffield, Derby and these people are such a tiny minority of the muslim community. Most people just want to live in peace, go to work, raise their kids and have a laugh with their friends. I went to mosque as a kid for years to learn the Quran and was only taught about respecting people and leading a good life. After learning about the religion I am free to be as religious as I like, over the years I have become less and less. I will teach my kids about Islam and about other beliefs, try to give them the best possible education and values I can and whatever they choose to be is their decision.
Whether you are Christian, Atheist, or even Jedi, to me you will be whoever you are based on your actions. There is no point in wasting what little time we have on this planet in hate. I will happily buy any one of you a pint down the boozer on a Friday night.
Anyway, I always read with great interest the threads on here about Islam, extremism and just generally religion/beliefs. I have been meaning to write about my thoughts/experiences and after some encouragement from some of my favourite posters (and Drone) here they are:
I am a muslim whose family migrated to England in 1986, I was 8 at the time. We have a lot of family back in Pakistan and tend to visit every year or two. I feel I can talk from the point of view of a muslim, immigrant yet also a Brit.
British and proud
First of all, I love this country. We moved here because my dad got cancer (in 1986) and was told his best option was to move back to England (as he was an English citizen) and get treatment here. He managed to prolong his life for a few years by us moving here. So I would step in front of a train to protect our amazing NHS and it is one of the many reasons why I love this country(see Greatest Country in the World thread for full list :-) ). Most muslim people of Asian descent will rightly tell you that we came here for a better life and that's exactly what England has provided for us. I don't see myself as British/Pakistani or a British/Muslim I am simply British.
Extremism
Like I have mentioned in another thread, people with extreme views have been around a long time. About 12 years ago I was walking down the street with a friend and there was a guy giving out flyers about Israel. He asked if I wanted to learn about what was happening over there. I said yes. So he went on to tell me about the Israeli occupation of Palestine and how badly the Palestinian people were being treated. I agreed they were being treated badly. Then he went on to say that muslims should go to Israel and fight and even mentioned bombing them. So being a sane person this angered me and I stated that there is never any way to justify killing people. I asked him his reasoning. He said "Doesn't Islam teach you to treat all muslims as brothers and sisters?". "Yes" I said. "Doesn't Islam say you should protect your family from harm?" "Doesn't Islam teach you that whenever you see cruelty and injustice you should stand up for the weak?" and so on ....
I could see how he had taken core good Islamic values and twisted them to build a case for fighting so I argued this. For 45 mins I argued with this guy and it ended up with me shouting in his face "There is no justification for killing innocent people! You are twisting Islam to justify bombing innocents! You are a disgrace!" So there I was in the middle of the high street shouting at him, my mate pulling me back saying "leave it Ade you know what these people are like". I can see how these guys have succeeded in brainwashing some people because he made his argument in such a calm and collected way and seem to have an answer for anything I said even though what he was saying was ridiculous.
There is a terrorist fighting this so called "Jihad" in Syria right now called Kabir Ali. I went to college with his brother Sagir (that gives you an idea of this inbred family, that the parents came out with Sagir for the first kid and then thought of Kabir for the second). Anyway, Sagir was a useless, lazy idiot and dropped out in the first year. My brother and I went to see him after he stopped going to classes and he was spending his days sleeping in the day and smoking weed at night. We asked him if he was going to get a job and he said "Been for interviews, but didn't get anything. They are all racist and don't want to employ pakis" My brother just said "Is everyone racist or are you just a stupid lazy, uneducated twat who hasn't worked a day in his life?" and we walked out.
So when we saw that Kabir was in Syria with IS my brother said it perfectly "Fucking bastard. Hates this country does he? I bet his whole family are happy taking benefits. Never worked a day is his life but is happy to blame the world for his problems. Let the guy back in England and put him straight into a cell"
Now my brother is a guy who has a full time job, and a part time job in the evenings, hardest working guy I have ever know and a very softly spoken guy. I can tell you that these people anger and sicken most muslims as much as they do anyone else.
Pakistan has had more then its share of Taliban terrorist attacks since helping the Americans fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Its on our front door in Islamabad:
My uncle worked in the reception of Marriot hotel, he finished his shift, left for home and one hour later it was bombed killing 52 people:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...riott-hotel-bomb-killed-52-says-Pakistan.html
If he had worked the evening shift he would have died. So I ask you what do you think my family/friends, all the muslim people in our community think of these extremists?
My father in law owns a clothes shop and was on his way to work, when he heard that the shops in the street behind his had been bombed. Really shook him up when he saw the devastation. So, what you do you think my wife's family, all those normal muslims think of extremists?
Fight against Extremism
Why aren't thousands of muslims getting together and marching against extremism? Well, I will speak for myself. There are many things that shock and anger me: world poverty, peodophiles, murderers, the slow privatisation of the NHS by the Tories, the bake off scandal and of course extremists.
These are all so obviously wrong. Everyone knows the evil of peodos, murderers, extremists. Did the catholic community organise a march to show that they think that abusing kids is wrong? Did they bloody need to? Do muslims need to march across London to show they think beheading innocent journalists is wrong? Do you bloody need to when its obvious every normal person of every belief knows that its evil. If the world took the money that is spent in one year on wars we could end world poverty. That is a fact. Why aren't we all marching about this?
Muslims don't fight extremism you say? I fight it is many ways, from educating my kids to treat every human being as equal, to not see race, colour, gender and judge people by their actions. In many cases I have seen that extremist views come from a lack of education and whenever I have encountered these people I have tried to educate them. I work in IT but I teach maths privately in the evenings/weekends and I am well know among my students as the teacher who gives lectures about how important education is, about how you can only achieve anything in life through hard work. I talk to anyone who has any hateful views and try to change their opinion.
For those talking about this country filling with terrorists I can tell you that I have lived in London, Manchester, Sheffield, Derby and these people are such a tiny minority of the muslim community. Most people just want to live in peace, go to work, raise their kids and have a laugh with their friends. I went to mosque as a kid for years to learn the Quran and was only taught about respecting people and leading a good life. After learning about the religion I am free to be as religious as I like, over the years I have become less and less. I will teach my kids about Islam and about other beliefs, try to give them the best possible education and values I can and whatever they choose to be is their decision.
Whether you are Christian, Atheist, or even Jedi, to me you will be whoever you are based on your actions. There is no point in wasting what little time we have on this planet in hate. I will happily buy any one of you a pint down the boozer on a Friday night.