The Academy: quality or quantity?

[Prestwich_Blue]

Pre ADUG, the Academy was undoubtedly one of the bright spots at City. It turned out loads of players who got into the first team and although many of them didn't last the course at City, they went somewhere else.

However, as the bar has been raised, it's the survivors like Stevie Ireland, SWP, Nedum Onuoah and Micah Richards that have been found wanting. This suggests that the quality coming out of the Academy hasn't been high enough.

Should it be now concentrating on quality over quantity?

 

[Damocles]

Definitely quantity.

The quality of players is such a horrific thing to judge at that age, you really have no idea hwo is going to do well and who isn't until you get them on the pitch. Maybe if we hit the CL, we can get guys like Boyata, Ibrahim, Guidetti, Ball, Cunningham, etc working with the string players in the Carling Cup.

No player can be judged until they are given a proper run out. Reserve games are shit for this. We need to turn over a high number of youth players in and around the first team squad, as this will also make them better players.

 

[Astuteboy]

I don't think you can say the academy hasn't been turning out quality and cite SWP and Micah.

SWP is out of form at the moment for sure, but he was a £20m+ player at one time, not to mention 30 odd England caps. And Micah was England's youngest ever defender and at one point a player few top clubs would have said no to. They might not be good enough to start every week in a PL winning team, but they are still quality players.

I don't think any academy in the country has produced a constant stream of world class players; there's just not enough good kids out there who turn into great players. Considering how crap our first team was a few years ago, I think the academy did a great job in attracting players as good as the ones we've nurtured tbh.

Now we've got a bit more going for us and we can hand pick youngsters from across Europe, I think we might see more players making it at the very top from our ranks in the next few years. We shall see.

 

[Project]

More than anything i'd love to see an emphasis on producing players who are comfortable with the ball. We fall short badly at this. The Arsenal and Barcelona academies are the benchmarks.

 

[MCFC87]

More than anything i'd love to see an emphasis on producing players who are comfortable with the ball. We fall short badly at this. The Arsenal and Barcelona academies are the benchmarks.

I agree, we give away the ball no matter who we buy. But we have one of an attack, finding that mix as we know is the key. Would love an academy player to become our frontrunner.

 

[charliebigspuds]

More than anything i'd love to see an emphasis on producing players who are comfortable with the ball. We fall short badly at this. The Arsenal and Barcelona academies are the benchmarks.

I agree with this but I think this is a problem that is national. I've recently watched U14's teams of Rochdale, Preston, Oldham, Accrington, Port Vale and a couple of others, now I know we are not discussing the cream of football youth here but the amount of players that can actually recieve a pass, control it and make a pass are few and far between. These kids should be coached this skill regardless of results, but it seems that the general team ethic is "get the ball forward, and win at all cost", its bobbins really!

 

[Project]

More than anything i'd love to see an emphasis on producing players who are comfortable with the ball. We fall short badly at this. The Arsenal and Barcelona academies are the benchmarks.

I agree with this but I think this is a problem that is national. I've recently watched U14's teams of Rochdale, Preston, Oldham, Accrington, Port Vale and a couple of others, now I know we are not discussing the cream of football youth here but the amount of players that can actually recieve a pass, control it and make a pass are few and far between. These kids should be coached this skill regardless of results, but it seems that the general team ethic is "get the ball forward, and win at all cost", its bobbins really!

It is a national problem, but we can directly affect the kids who come through our doors between the ages of 9-13. At the end of the day you have to ask yourself why are other nations more technical than us? The water is pretty much the same, meaning it's solely down to the coaching mentality. As arbiters of who is a coach at this club and who isn't, we have the ability to change this mentality. Arsenal have shown the trend of how you do it in this country. They are well drilled as to how to play the Arsenal way. It's saving them a fortune in transfer fees and keeping them competitive at the same time. Even their English kids... Lansbury, Thomas, Wilshere, Gibbs... all comfortable on the ball. If Wenger had got a hold of Walcott 3 years earlier he'd be laughing.

Evertons academy is on point too. Rodwell, Rooney, Ross Barkley etc... all fine footballers.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Arsenal have shown the trend of how you do it in this country. They are well drilled as to how to play the Arsenal way.

I know a bit about how the Arsenal academy works. Up to 16 /17 it's largely about technique and doing the basics. Wenger reckons that they'll have all the technique they need by that age. Then they work on strength, pace, vision and awareness.

You look at SWP and he's got pace but little else. Richards - power and pace and little else.Ireland does seem to have all of those qualities but he developed the strength himself a couple of summers ago. He seems to lack the focus and winning mentality a top player needs.

 

[Project]

Arsenal have shown the trend of how you do it in this country. They are well drilled as to how to play the Arsenal way.

I know a bit about how the Arsenal academy works. Up to 16 /17 it's largely about technique and doing the basics. Wenger reckons that they'll have all the technique they need by that age. Then they work on strength, pace, vision and awareness.

You look at SWP and he's got pace but little else. Richards - power and pace and little else.Ireland does seem to have all of those qualities but he developed the strength himself a couple of summers ago. He seems to lack the focus and winning mentality a top player needs.

You can also argue that our best ball players, Ireland, Weiss, Johnson, were all developed (technically) elsewhere. Johnson is an edge case given he was at us then went elsewhere before returning, but ultimately i'm yet to see somebody who came to us at a young age (9-13), is now Premier League quality and is talented with the ball. It's a view that might ruffle a few feathers but I find that a disgrace. It's been about 13 years or so since we set up the Academy.

 

[sweep]

The quality of our academy output should improve over the next few years as the quality of the youngsters we can attract in the first place should improve alongside the rising profile/success of the club.

More than anything i'd love to see an emphasis on producing players who are comfortable with the ball. We fall short badly at this. The Arsenal and Barcelona academies are the benchmarks.

I agree with this but I think this is a problem that is national. I've recently watched U14's teams of Rochdale, Preston, Oldham, Accrington, Port Vale and a couple of others, now I know we are not discussing the cream of football youth here but the amount of players that can actually recieve a pass, control it and make a pass are few and far between. These kids should be coached this skill regardless of results, but it seems that the general team ethic is "get the ball forward, and win at all cost", its bobbins really!

Have said the same more than once. It's a vicious circle, the coaching emphasis filters all the way down from the top level, premiership/league match going fans are obsessed with the pace of the game, kids are taught and selected on the same basis so that is how they play if and when they make it to the top. It's why I never give England a serious chance of winning a world cup or euro championship.

 

[squirtyflower]

Arsenal have shown the trend of how you do it in this country. They are well drilled as to how to play the Arsenal way.

I know a bit about how the Arsenal academy works. Up to 16 /17 it's largely about technique and doing the basics. Wenger reckons that they'll have all the technique they need by that age. Then they work on strength, pace, vision and awareness.

You look at SWP and he's got pace but little else. Richards - power and pace and little else.Ireland does seem to have all of those qualities but he developed the strength himself a couple of summers ago. He seems to lack the focus and winning mentality a top player needs.

Interestingly this was the supposed friction between Hughes and Cassell
Hughes wanted the academy to use the Arsenal methods, others didn't want to change

 

[2sheikhs]

Check out the U18s side that just beat blackburn 5-1.Hardly any English lads amongst them.Over the next 2/3 seasons,these will make the step up to the 1st team because we've scouted lads with good skill and technical ability.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

Besides West Ham and Arsenal (kiddie snatching aside!) I can't think of another academy that has produced so many good players in the last decade or so.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

You can put it all down to Hughes, he didn't trust kids to do the job, thus none had the chance to come thru and show us what they could do. The production line was stopped died(only Wiess was given any a chance to start for the first time under Hughes)and since he has gone we have already seen a number of players given starts.

 

[Anonymous]

I find it highly amusing how everyone creams about bringing 30 players through the academy when Leon Mike, Willo Flood and Terry Dunfield are 3 of the 30.

The only quality we have brought through is Ireland. SWP came at 16 so don't tell me he came through our academy.

 

[Damocles]

Yeah, and Sturridge (the guy who plays for one of the league leaders), Richards (an England international and City's first choice RB), and Whelan (a player who is at the rock of a tough Stoke side, and a full international) is in there too.

How many of the 30 got full honours and/or played in the Premiership? I'd guess at least 15. That's a record that many clubs would die for.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

Yeah, and Sturridge (the guy who plays for one of the league leaders), Richards (an England international and City's first choice RB), and Whelan (a player who is at the rock of a tough Stoke side, and a full international) is in there too.

How many of the 30 got full honours and/or played in the Premiership? I'd guess at least 15. That's a record that many clubs would die for.

Don't forget Onuhoa has played over 100 times for us and was captain the England U21s

 

[Damocles]

Yeah, and Sturridge (the guy who plays for one of the league leaders), Richards (an England international and City's first choice RB), and Whelan (a player who is at the rock of a tough Stoke side, and a full international) is in there too.

How many of the 30 got full honours and/or played in the Premiership? I'd guess at least 15. That's a record that many clubs would die for.

Don't forget Onuhoa has played over 100 times for us and was captain the England U21s

Wow, I never thought he had that many appearances, though thinking about it, it makes sense.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, and Sturridge (the guy who plays for one of the league leaders), Richards (an England international and City's first choice RB), and Whelan (a player who is at the rock of a tough Stoke side, and a full international) is in there too.

How many of the 30 got full honours and/or played in the Premiership? I'd guess at least 15. That's a record that many clubs would die for.

Richards and Sturridge all bought from other sides at 14. It's easy to have a so called decent academy when you can afford to snap up the smaller teams best kids. That's not what having an academy is all about, you might aswell just not have any kids until an U16 side where it's full of players who have been bought from other clubs.

And it's not just a dig at City, it's a dig at every club in this country. The academy's are a joke.

 

[Damocles]

Yeah, and Sturridge (the guy who plays for one of the league leaders), Richards (an England international and City's first choice RB), and Whelan (a player who is at the rock of a tough Stoke side, and a full international) is in there too.

How many of the 30 got full honours and/or played in the Premiership? I'd guess at least 15. That's a record that many clubs would die for.

Richards and Sturridge all bought from other sides at 14. It's easy to have a so called decent academy when you can afford to snap up the smaller teams best kids. That's not what having an academy is all about, you might aswell just not have any kids until an U16 side where it's full of players who have been bought from other clubs.

And it's not just a dig at City, it's a dig at every club in this country. The academy's are a joke.

So what exactly is an 'acceptable age' for us to allow us to call people brought through our ranks? Under 14? 10? 6?

99% of professional Premiership footballers have moved clubs before they are 18, purely because they may not fit with a particular clubs style of football, this doesn't mean that they are shit though.