The Album Review Club - Week #146 - (page 1935) - Ocean Rain - Echo and the Bunnymen

[Saddleworth2]

You raise some interesting points some of which I agree with and others less so. It'll probably derail the thread to get into them and there's probably a thread somewhere where I can go off on one about the evils of social media and it's amplication of difference for profit. So I'll leave it at a couple of less heavy points...

I don't care what year it is, there will never be a day where there isn't room for a well delivered "you dig it?"

Your point about the puddings in the fridge is well made but I would argue that the nature of those puddings too often represent the 'wrong sort' of progress both from a culinary and societal perspective. I'm currently toying with the idea of poetry as a hobby to improve my writing and you might have inspired me to write a poem called The Puddings In The Fridge ('45-'24).

Go for it. I love Poetry. I'm sure there are a couple of Poetry threads on here somewhere. As my post about my Granddaughters suggests, I have views on todays social media and its poisonous nature as well.

 

[mrbelfry]

You raise some interesting points some of which I agree with and others less so. It'll probably derail the thread to get into them and there's probably a thread somewhere where I can go off on one about the evils of social media and it's amplication of difference for profit. So I'll leave it at a couple of less heavy points...

I don't care what year it is, there will never be a day where there isn't room for a well delivered "you dig it?"

Your point about the puddings in the fridge is well made but I would argue that the nature of those puddings too often represent the 'wrong sort' of progress both from a culinary and societal perspective. I'm currently toying with the idea of poetry as a hobby to improve my writing and you might have inspired me to write a poem called The Puddings In The Fridge ('45-'24).

Possibly the first time I've ever inspired anyone so I'm honoured. My favourite dessert growing up was my Nan's stewed rhubarb with lots of orange zest in it. We only had it rarely as you had to spend time with my grandad to get it and the fear of that often outweighed the promise of the rhubarb.

I feel like I've over amplified my feelings on the lyrics and the more it's discussed the more my views will become entrenched - thus highlighting the social media problem (the main one in my opinion it creates dissatisfaction out of normal experiences).

The lyrics on this album are by far the weakest point for me - so much so that at times I'm not sure if a deliberate point is being made or not. I think I'm being unkind and extremely generous at the same time

 

[RobMCFC]

We only had it rarely as you had to spend time with my grandad to get it and the fear of that often outweighed the promise of the rhubarb.

You remain a master of the quote, or at least a single sentence that hints at a fascinating story :)

 

[mrbelfry]

You remain a master of the quote, or at least a single sentence that hints at a fascinating story :)

Ah no great story. He was just a scary old Polish man who couldn't understand why his kids weren't full of gratitude because he'd provided them with luxury and opportunity compared to his upbringing. His kids (ie my mum) felt they should probably have had their own pair of school shoes each rather than having to take it in turns to wear them to school.

He taught us how to play dominoes, talked through a tracheostomy and beat up my mum and her siblings. His house was dark and oppressive and secret things were whispered about that I couldn't possibly understand aged 11. My nan was nice though she wasn't my mum's mum. She bought me an iron as a wedding gift but died the week before I got married.

We didn't even have it that tough. My older cousins got it much worse.

I wonder how his life would be different if he hadn't grown up exploited by various forms of government - he fought on both sides in WW2 and then was abandoned in Wythenshawe. He left behind some poetry and fear. But the world is a much worse place now because Star Wars is racist and misogynistic so it's probably good he's dead just to avoid that injustice.

 

[threespires]

Ah no great story. He was just a scary old Polish man who couldn't understand why his kids weren't full of gratitude because he'd provided them with luxury and opportunity compared to his upbringing. His kids (ie my mum) felt they should probably have had their own pair of school shoes each rather than having to take it in turns to wear them to school.

He taught us how to play dominoes, talked through a tracheostomy and beat up my mum and her siblings. His house was dark and oppressive and secret things were whispered about that I couldn't possibly understand aged 11. My nan was nice though she wasn't my mum's mum. She bought me an iron as a wedding gift but died the week before I got married.

We didn't even have it that tough. My older cousins got it much worse.

I wonder how his life would be different if he hadn't grown up exploited by various forms of government - he fought on both sides in WW2 and then was abandoned in Wythenshawe. He left behind some poetry and fear. But the world is a much worse place now because Star Wars is racist and misogynistic so it's probably good he's dead just to avoid that injustice.

I know this is not "Who Do you Think You Are?" but how did he end up an enforced Wythenshavian? Not wanting to diss my home town having been born and bred there, but Alderman Jackson's brave vision of the greatest of garden suburbs didn't come off entirely and I imagine it could have been a strange and dislocating place for someone who didn't want to be there.

 

[mrbelfry]

I know this is not "Who Do you Think You Are?" but how did he end up an enforced Wythenshavian? Not wanting to diss my home town having been born and bred there, but Alderman Jackson's brave vision of the greatest of garden suburbs didn't come off entirely and I imagine it could have been a strange and dislocating place for someone who didn't want to be there.

No one is truly sure because he never spoke about it as far as I know so the story is pieced together from some documents he left behind. Although he was Polish he was born in Lithuania - I think depending on when and who drew the border sometimes it was Poland and sometimes Lithuania. After the war wherever he was from was absorbed into the USSR so I think he became kind of stateless and couldn't return. My memory is hazy but I think at the end of the war the British army had some polish battalions or something so I guess the state felt some kind of obligation so pitched him up in Wythenshawe when most of it was still actually fields.

My grandad then tried to make the best of it by fully endorsing a when in Rome act like a Roman approach so my mum and her siblings didn't learn anything about their polish heritage which I think really left my uncle feeling rootless and caused him many problems growing up. Not British enough for the Brits nor Polish enough for the Poles.

They didn't know it at the time but my dad delivered the paper to my mum's house.

 

[Black&White&BlueMoon Town]

JPEG RAW by Gary Clarke Jr

Score first then I'll ramble go try and justify it. This is clearly a good album. Much better than a 6 but one I can't rate higher than a 7 even though it's doing a lot of stuff I like. It's also doing a bunch of stuff I don't quite understand so it's probably me. But it's also doing a bunch of stuff that actively aggravates me.

Sorry about the aggravation, I wasn't expecting that to be overriding theme of many, and if so, I didn't have it penned on you if it was. I did want to address a few key points as best I'm able to.

I split the album into 2 with the pointless To The End of the Earth marking the break point. Or maybe it's not pointless. Maybe it is me not understanding.

I'm not going to claim I get it more than just GCJ just wanting to write and perform something he hadn't done much before prior. I listened to a PBS (I believe, can't remember) audio interview with him over the summer a few months ago where he talked about how proud he was of that "changeup", and not his usual offering. To me, I liked the change of pace from the first 4 sounds heavy on the music and beat to this one, just stripped down with him on his guitar crooning. I liked how it also transitioned right into the jazzy "Alone Together", which I felt was better coming straight from a slow-down on the album too. But again, that's my take, and in his defense, it's his album, and I admire and like he felt the freedom to add that small intimate track. I can only say I pay more attention to that song now than I did at the beginning, but I'm well into obsessive listens at this point. ;-)

Don't Start carries on with the muscular stuff and threats to kill a man. Some nice bass work but I've definitely had enough by the time it finishes.

Honestly my least favourite song on the album too. Love the vocals, but the repetition, understood.

This is Who We Are has the best moment of the album. The intro is bananas in all the ways I loved War of the Worlds and the song has some interesting sounds I wish were more obvious. It has a pulsey bass thing going on like Witness by Roots Manuva or at least I think I'm hearing it. My goodness it's full of interesting production choices being hidden underneath a bunch of guitar. It ends really really well and I love the arpeggio it descends into.

Totally agreed best song up to that point, and probably the first of the 4 that initially really took me in on the album. The best part of "side 1" to me, but I've already explained my best overall moment at the end.

I really enjoy how this section feels like I'm hearing it in a club and in general I really enjoy how the songs seem to be blending together. it is very very masculine though with lots of threats to shut mouths etc. To The End of the Earth might be a joke or it's doing something very deliberate I don't understand but I wish I did. The album changes direction slightly and a lot of the groove that I felt was hidden by the mix suddenly becomes more obvious as we leave some of the masculinity behind. Again I really want to know if this is deliberate choice or not.

Alone Together really makes me feel like my 7 is incredibly harsh. I love the subtle variation in the drums, the flute, the falsetto, the groove. I want to put it on repeat and fall asleep to it. Am I about to talk myself into a higher score? Unfortunately not as Stevie Wonder is about to appear and harsh my vibe.

"Side 1" does have a good ending to it, no question. Again, the transition to "Alone Together"...

It's easy to imagine What About The Children being a single as it has the most immediate groove. Its missing a strong hook though and the lyrics are so cliched and bad that I can't quite believe it's not a joke. The honest people line confuses me as I'm not sure if it's sarcastic or not. Stevie shouting WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES and thinking you can buy shoes for a dollar is a real low point.

I don't think its sarcasm at all, to answer the question if needed. I'm not going to invite some of you to visit a large city in the US to see some of this firsthand, but you get the point. Again, I think more of what happened to inspire Stevie coming to Gary dealing with his frustration in what he was seeing to get together on the song, and I do enjoy the music as a throwback.

Hearts in Retrograde almost returns the album back to a high standard but I have a nagging feeling that Lenny Kravitz would do this better. Still some interesting ideas in this. The tempo change is good but doesn't seem to lead to anything. I really want to understand why!!!!!!! I feel like it's important but don't know why.

Not going to disagree on the influence or similarity of artists there, and I hadn't thought of Lenny, but good observation. I have no criticism of that song.

Hyperwave has a really enjoyable bass line and some really nice moments but again the contrast between the first half of the album and this half feels significant but I don't understand why :(

I'm not going to dump on Hyperwave, which was perfectly placed after "Hearts in Retrograde" is all I will say. ;-)

Funk Witch U has stupid spelling and worse lyrics. I guess they are genre appropriate but singing all around the world and rhyming that with all the boys and girls just feels lazy. Still some nice sounds on it that I wish were easier to hear.

This took me the longest to enjoy. The title doesn't bother me at all, and George Clinton's vocals have really grown on me. I'm not looking for deep meaning in the lyrics on this one, so I can't help there. I just enjoy the funk.

Triumph is soooooo close to being a banger. I wish again the lyrics were stronger and the gated snare is really an abomination. BUT I really applaud the decision to do it even if I think it's dumb. It's possible though that this song and all the other songs trying to get me to think about the babies are failing for me because I've heard The JCB Song which is the greatest song about a dad and his kids that's ever been written. This is why it really obviously can't be a 6 but why I can't give it more than a 7.

The guest vocals on that song drove the point home for me. I bet many wish they could sit down and focus and leave a message like that to their kids in a crazy world of trying to make it, buy your first car, enjoying refrigerated pudding, getting past devastating hurricane disasters, picking yourself back up, etc., but seldom ever do.

Album closer Habits is the perfect way to end and leave me really confused. What's the purpose of the breakdown thing just over 3 minutes in? I expected it to go into a mad gospel direction but we then return to a variation of the main riff but now it's kind of latin.

I loved the 2nd stripped down section until it picked up again.

This album frustrates me so much. With the exception of the homeless kids song there isn't a single track I wouldn't want to hear again and it's got some incredibly fascinating choices in it. It's obviously great but I just can't get past that 7. It will remain the best album by far that I give a 7

If frustration and aggravation gets this a 6 raised to a 7, then I suppose I will just be thankful. I look at this more of the whole and the work that went into putting something different out after the pandemic that contained references and thoughts on things going on both on the outside, and on the inside.

 

[mrbelfry]

Sorry about the aggravation, I wasn't expecting that to be overriding theme of many, and if so, I didn't have it penned on you if it was. I did want to address a few key points as best I'm able to.

I'm not going to claim I get it more than just GCJ just wanting to write and perform something he hadn't done much before prior. I listened to a PBS (I believe, can't remember) audio interview with him over the summer a few months ago where he talked about how proud he was of that "changeup", and not his usual offering. To me, I liked the change of pace from the first 4 sounds heavy on the music and beat to this one, just stripped down with him on his guitar crooning. I liked how it also transitioned right into the jazzy "Alone Together", which I felt was better from a slow-down on the album too. But again, that's my take, and in his defense, it's his album, and I admire and like he felt the freedom to add that small intimate track. I can only say I pay more attention to that song now than I did at the beginning, but I'm well into obsessive listens at this point. ;-)

Honestly my least favourite song on the album at this point too. Love the vocals, but the repetition, understood.

Totally agreed best song up to that point, and probably the first of the 4 that initially really took me in on the album. The best part of "side 1" to me, but I've already explained my best overall moment at the end.


"Side 1" does have a good ending to it, no question. Again, the transition to "Alone Together"...


I don't think its sarcasm at all, to answer the question if needed. I'm not going to invite some of you to visit a large city in the US to see some of this firsthand, but you get the point. Again, I think more of what happened to inspire Stevie coming to Gary dealing with his frustration in what he was seeing to get together on the song, and I do enjoy the music as a throwback.

Not going to disagree on the influence or similarity of artists there, and I hadn't thought of Lenny, but good observation. I have no criticism of that song.

I'm not going to dump on Hyperwave, which was perfectly placed after "Hearts in Retrograde" is all I will say. ;-)

This took me the longest to enjoy. The title doesn't bother me at all, and George Clinton's vocals have really grown on me. I'm not looking for deep meaning in the lyrics on this one, so I can't help there. I just enjoy the funk.

The guest vocals on that song drove the point home for me. I bet many wish they could sit down and focus and leave a message like that to their kids in a crazy world of trying to make it, buy your first car, enjoying refrigerated pudding, getting past devastating hurricane disasters, picking yourself back up, etc., but seldom ever do.

I loved the 2nd stripped down section until it picked up again.

If frustration and aggravation gets this a 6 raised to a 7, then I suppose I will just be thankful. I look at this more of the whole and the work that went into putting something different out after the pandemic that contained references and thoughts on things going on both on the outside, and on the inside.

On balance it's only really the what about the babies song and the gated snare on triumph that aggravates me. The lyrics aren't my favourite but it's not terrible. Some of the masculinity in the first half (in the tone of the songs and the lyrics is also a little frustrating).

My main takeaway is I think it's fantastic but there are some moments that I wish I could sit Gary Clarke Jr down for and have him explain to me. It's low key aggravating/frustrating that I don't know why he's made some of the choices he's made on the album and I want to understand those choices.

If the review has come across as negative then that's my poor writing. This is 100% the best album I will ever give a 7 too. I totally understand why it would get higher I just can't give it a higher score

 

[threespires]

No one is truly sure because he never spoke about it as far as I know so the story is pieced together from some documents he left behind. Although he was Polish he was born in Lithuania - I think depending on when and who drew the border sometimes it was Poland and sometimes Lithuania. After the war wherever he was from was absorbed into the USSR so I think he became kind of stateless and couldn't return. My memory is hazy but I think at the end of the war the British army had some polish battalions or something so I guess the state felt some kind of obligation so pitched him up in Wythenshawe when most of it was still actually fields.

My grandad then tried to make the best of it by fully endorsing a when in Rome act like a Roman approach so my mum and her siblings didn't learn anything about their polish heritage which I think really left my uncle feeling rootless and caused him many problems growing up. Not British enough for the Brits nor Polish enough for the Poles.

They didn't know it at the time but my dad delivered the paper to my mum's house.

That last paragraph was an upbeat end to an otherwise somewhat sad story. Questions of identity are fascinating to me, apparently of the five broad ways we tend to describe our identify, four focus on difference and only one on similarity, yet focus on that one can lead to higher levels of happiness through communality. Shame there are always people willing to focus on the other four ways for profit :-(

 

[threespires]

The gated snare on triumph that aggravates me.

Good job you weren't around for some of the earlier picks.

One of the reasons I know I'm not suited to politics is that if you asked me what one piece of legislation I would bring in given the chance, I would bin the shedload of educational reforms I think we need in favour of introducing a law that said when an album is released the corresponding dry tracks must be released too so we can decide exactly who is to praise or blame.