BimboBob
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I quite like Billy Joel. In contrast Mr Folds seems smug. Undoubtedly a talented musician but quite full of himself. Which is annoying me.
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The Album Review Club - Week #195 (page 1310) - A New World Record - ELO
- Thread starter RobMCFC
- Start date
My original observations seem on point. Eurgh.That Ben Folds would do speeches at Google and Lawrence shows now appear on Apple TV makes sense - there is a corporate cool quirky thing going on and Folds is the safe bad guy you can tell all your mates you smoked weed with whilst you're hiking with your carefully curated diverse group of friends. Someone will have a moment of self realisation that makes their lives instantly better and everyone hugs and everyone is nice.
threespires
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I quite like Billy Joel. In contrast Mr Folds seems smug. Undoubtedly a talented musician but quite full of himself. Which is annoying me.
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I can see why you would say that. I wonder if this is one of those divided by a common language / different sensibilities ones? Be interesting to see if our resident muricans feel the same way.
I'm getting on ok with it but there are definitely times when it all goes a bit Whose Line Is It Anyway.
RobMCFC
Well-Known Member
Ben Folds is an artist who I’ve known about for a long time but never listened to, so I was glad when one of his albums came up for nomination.
I enjoyed this - a guy who knows how to play, but perhaps more importantly, knows how to construct songs. Songs that are well played, for the most part just Ben Folds on his piano backed by bass and drums. In contrast to some previous comments, I’d say that it’s an album that is the opposite of smug - it has no airs and graces, is unpretentious and doesn’t rely on any gimmicks (or weird hair) to get the songs over.
I love some of the piano playing here, specifically on the superb “Landed” and the previous track, “Jesusland” is also a highlight. The first four songs are very strong and whilst there is a little sag in the middle, Songs for Silverman is easily a 7/10.
I enjoyed this - a guy who knows how to play, but perhaps more importantly, knows how to construct songs. Songs that are well played, for the most part just Ben Folds on his piano backed by bass and drums. In contrast to some previous comments, I’d say that it’s an album that is the opposite of smug - it has no airs and graces, is unpretentious and doesn’t rely on any gimmicks (or weird hair) to get the songs over.
I love some of the piano playing here, specifically on the superb “Landed” and the previous track, “Jesusland” is also a highlight. The first four songs are very strong and whilst there is a little sag in the middle, Songs for Silverman is easily a 7/10.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
I quite like Billy Joel. In contrast Mr Folds seems smug. Undoubtedly a talented musician but quite full of himself. Which is annoying me.
Here are some Billy Joel quotes:
Why do musicians give so much time to charitable causes? The most humanitarian cause that we can give our time to is the creation and performance of music itself.
Artists — musicians, painters, writers, poets — always seem to have had the most accurate perception of what is really going on around them, not the official version or the popular perception of contemporary life.
I am, as I’ve said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
People my age, 25 to 40, who grew up as Cold War babies, we don't have anybody writing music for us. There's a lot of formula rock aimed at the 11-year-old market, and there's a lot of MOR for people over 50. But this is an album dealing with us, and our American experience--guilt, pressures, relationships, and the whole Vietnam syndrome.
He's an absolute fucking tool and a half.
The contrast with Folds is that Joel is an UNtalented musician but quite full of himself.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Yeah...all that may be true...but the music portrays a different beat. Joel has hooks. Very bizarrely his lyrics strike a cord with me. None of them are aimed at me, i shouldnt take anything from them. But i do.Here are some Billy Joel quotes:
Why do musicians give so much time to charitable causes? The most humanitarian cause that we can give our time to is the creation and performance of music itself.
Artists — musicians, painters, writers, poets — always seem to have had the most accurate perception of what is really going on around them, not the official version or the popular perception of contemporary life.
I am, as I’ve said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
People my age, 25 to 40, who grew up as Cold War babies, we don't have anybody writing music for us. There's a lot of formula rock aimed at the 11-year-old market, and there's a lot of MOR for people over 50. But this is an album dealing with us, and our American experience--guilt, pressures, relationships, and the whole Vietnam syndrome.
He's an absolute fucking tool and a half.
The contrast with Folds is that Joel is an UNtalented musician but quite full of himself.
All I'm getting from Folds is a smugness. It's back to Friends music again.
I had it on today, out in the sun, just me, a comfy garden chair and Mr Folds. Ideal scene. A beautiful spring day.
Maybe nature was too distracting as the whole album passed me by with not so much as a small smile.
It's smells of Richard Digence thinking he's funny and Peter Skelton thinking he's sophisticated. Isn't it lovely to have a Penis...plink plink...
It's a level of smugness that names an album Sleighed and thinks he got away with it.
I put on Joel's "The Stranger" after. The difference between them was a stark reality. Both are excellent pianists for sure but only one of them managed to get me to tap my feet and not annoy me.
Still, I like a bit of piano, it's all very harmless, even if the lyrics are trite, and I can appreciate the arrangements.
So it's a 5/10
Ben Folds is a bit like Belle and Sebastian to me. In the sense that, there is plenty there for me to like, plenty tell me I should, and I probably should - but ultimately something has just never clicked.
Now I can at least say I gave it a proper go.
He is obviously a talented musician, knows how to write a jingle, pleasant voice, rich enough production. I'd probably hear a song on tv and look it up and surprise myself it is him. But yet a whole album, I just never get into. Probably a 5.5, just symbolically more than a 5 that I usually give something whose qualities I recognise but isn't for me. Jesusland probably the one that stood out on the album.
Now I can at least say I gave it a proper go.
He is obviously a talented musician, knows how to write a jingle, pleasant voice, rich enough production. I'd probably hear a song on tv and look it up and surprise myself it is him. But yet a whole album, I just never get into. Probably a 5.5, just symbolically more than a 5 that I usually give something whose qualities I recognise but isn't for me. Jesusland probably the one that stood out on the album.
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Mancitydoogle
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I took my girlfriend at the to see Billy Joel as she was a big fan on The Stranger tour in 1979 at the Manchester Apollo front row seats as I was really trying to impress.Here are some Billy Joel quotes:
Why do musicians give so much time to charitable causes? The most humanitarian cause that we can give our time to is the creation and performance of music itself.
Artists — musicians, painters, writers, poets — always seem to have had the most accurate perception of what is really going on around them, not the official version or the popular perception of contemporary life.
I am, as I’ve said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
People my age, 25 to 40, who grew up as Cold War babies, we don't have anybody writing music for us. There's a lot of formula rock aimed at the 11-year-old market, and there's a lot of MOR for people over 50. But this is an album dealing with us, and our American experience--guilt, pressures, relationships, and the whole Vietnam syndrome.
He's an absolute fucking tool and a half.
The contrast with Folds is that Joel is an UNtalented musician but quite full of himself.
In fairness he put on a good show.Afterwards we went for drinks at the Piccadilly hotel and he was in the bar with his entourage, I starting chatting to him and even though I was only 19 he must have thought I was a music journalist, maybe the UK equivalent of Cameron Crow.Anways as soon as he found out I wasn’t, he told me to fuck off, the charmer.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
He knows he's not that good, and knows he got lucky, so kudos for his self-awareness, but pontificating about the shit state of music and fellow musicians is something he did on a regular basis despite knowing he's not that good and got lucky. The poster child for believing one's own hype. And he wrote one -- count 'em, one -- great song (Allentown) and had one -- count 'em, one -- good record (Nylon Curtain). Though I did fall for Glass Houses for a while in my youth. But I was too naïve to see it as a cynical "new wave" exploitation at the time.I took my girlfriend at the to see Billy Joel as she was a big fan on The Stranger tour in 1979 at the Manchester Apollo front row seats as I was really trying to impress.
In fairness he put on a good show.Afterwards we went for drinks at the Piccadilly hotel and he was in the bar with his entourage, I starting chatting to him and even though I was only 19 he must have thought I was a music journalist, maybe the UK equivalent of Cameron Crow.Anways as soon as he found out I wasn’t, he told me to fuck off, the charmer.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
New Wave over here means Numan etc etc and not a rock album. Which is what Glass Houses is. You are also very, very wrong about Nylon Curtain. Not his best album by a long way.He knows he's not that good, and knows he got lucky, so kudos for his self-awareness, but pontificating about the shit state of music and fellow musicians is something he did on a regular basis despite knowing he's not that good and got lucky. The poster child for believing one's own hype. And he wrote one -- count 'em, one -- great song (Allentown) and had one -- count 'em, one -- good record (Nylon Curtain). Though I did fall for Glass Houses for a while in my youth. But I was too naïve to see it as a cynical "new wave" exploitation at the time.
Still...horses for courses...
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
I agree about Numan -- and it's a bit of my point -- that was "Billy Joel's" version of "new wave" (like Signals was Rush's version, or The Royal Scam was Steely Dan's "disco" record, etc).New Wave over here means Numan etc etc and not a rock album. Which is what Glass Houses is. You are also very, very wrong about Nylon Curtain. Not his best album by a long way.
Still...horses for courses...
As long as you don't think it's The Stranger, which should be instantly disqualified for having the horrifying, vomit-inducing "Just The Way You Are" on it, then, yes, horses for courses . . . :)
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BimboBob
Well-Known Member
No, thats my second favourite after Glass Houses.I agree about Numan -- and it's a bit of my point -- that was "Billy Joel's" version of "new wave" (like Signals was Rush's version, or The Royal Scam was Steely Dan's "disco" record, etc).
As long as you don't think it's The Stranger, which should be instantly disqualified for having the horrifying, vomit-inducing "Just The Way You Are" on it, then, yes, horses for courses . . . :)
Mainly because of 'Scenes...' which is a doozy of a record.
Songs for Silverman: Ben Folds. Album review Mr.G - 01.04.25
One of those albums where the band/artist themselves influence the reception of album.
Hairstyles are not the issue here, rather it's the artists personality and demeaner that infiltrate the experience because the album is so introspective in it's writing.
Unfortunately, this is not a good thing. It borders on narcissistic at times and i left the album really not liking the singer. "Give Judy my notice" being one such example of where the singers relationships don't show him in a good light. His numerous failed marriages begin to make sense when they are treated like employment. Even singing about his daughter (Gracie) feels forced. No doubt this track was added because his son got one on a previous album.
Songs and albums about "Me" are fine, especially so when "me" is going through disaster/turmoil/agony, etc. Songs about dumping a lover over silly issues just reinforce the singer as being a bit of tit in the personality department and because this album is so narcissistic, it becomes impossible to sperate the person from the singing.
Musically, it is well made. Production is good and the beats are tight and well done but like a posh meal at a Michelin restaurant, Bens plate always looks a bit barren and you always end up wishing for more filling in the pie no matter how well it's been baked.
It is hollow at times. On some tracks, (eg Time) you begin to get a bit of that filling popping up and the song fills out but "Time" is track 10 of 11 and it's a dollar short and day late which is a shame because had the other courses been a bit more filling and not felt so "2D" in presentation, it could have really been a benefit.
Ben's voice is the weakest link. He's on the wrong side of the mike tbh. The first line of the first song "Bastard" shows the listener straight away what's going to be singers flavour on the album. It is weak and thin and dull. Oddly enough it matches the gist of the album, thin, weak, slightly unpalatable.
The album did benefit from a few listens. I got to hear the album much better on the second spin.
I had made a mental note of the more favorable tracks but those memories got washed away in 11 tracks of relative sameness tbh so i can't really state what they were now.
As i got to the end of my second listen i had to press pause for a piss, only to discover the album had ended a few tracks ago and the algorithm had taken over with similar piano led pop tracks. Ironic that i had missed the transition. Sums up my experience well.
Hard to score. If we start at 5, then knock 1 off for the singer being a vacuous tit, another 1 for his poor singing, that makes 3. Add 1 for good production and 1 for at least trying with the lyrics, we get back up to a 5.
Feels right. It's a 5 from me. Under achieving.
One of those albums where the band/artist themselves influence the reception of album.
Hairstyles are not the issue here, rather it's the artists personality and demeaner that infiltrate the experience because the album is so introspective in it's writing.
Unfortunately, this is not a good thing. It borders on narcissistic at times and i left the album really not liking the singer. "Give Judy my notice" being one such example of where the singers relationships don't show him in a good light. His numerous failed marriages begin to make sense when they are treated like employment. Even singing about his daughter (Gracie) feels forced. No doubt this track was added because his son got one on a previous album.
Songs and albums about "Me" are fine, especially so when "me" is going through disaster/turmoil/agony, etc. Songs about dumping a lover over silly issues just reinforce the singer as being a bit of tit in the personality department and because this album is so narcissistic, it becomes impossible to sperate the person from the singing.
Musically, it is well made. Production is good and the beats are tight and well done but like a posh meal at a Michelin restaurant, Bens plate always looks a bit barren and you always end up wishing for more filling in the pie no matter how well it's been baked.
It is hollow at times. On some tracks, (eg Time) you begin to get a bit of that filling popping up and the song fills out but "Time" is track 10 of 11 and it's a dollar short and day late which is a shame because had the other courses been a bit more filling and not felt so "2D" in presentation, it could have really been a benefit.
Ben's voice is the weakest link. He's on the wrong side of the mike tbh. The first line of the first song "Bastard" shows the listener straight away what's going to be singers flavour on the album. It is weak and thin and dull. Oddly enough it matches the gist of the album, thin, weak, slightly unpalatable.
The album did benefit from a few listens. I got to hear the album much better on the second spin.
I had made a mental note of the more favorable tracks but those memories got washed away in 11 tracks of relative sameness tbh so i can't really state what they were now.
As i got to the end of my second listen i had to press pause for a piss, only to discover the album had ended a few tracks ago and the algorithm had taken over with similar piano led pop tracks. Ironic that i had missed the transition. Sums up my experience well.
Hard to score. If we start at 5, then knock 1 off for the singer being a vacuous tit, another 1 for his poor singing, that makes 3. Add 1 for good production and 1 for at least trying with the lyrics, we get back up to a 5.
Feels right. It's a 5 from me. Under achieving.
Ben folds like the recently Dylan nomination just replace harmonica with piano at the start of the songs.
Just like Dylan the more I listen the more I hate his voice.
Nothing really floats my boat,another long hard slog for me this week. 4.
Just like Dylan the more I listen the more I hate his voice.
Nothing really floats my boat,another long hard slog for me this week. 4.
threespires
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I am building up a file of artists that I don't really know but who are according to Foggy in fact douchebags, all with a view to having a douchebag listening weekend at some point to see what I make of them myself. Despite Billy Joel being super famous I only know a couple of his vomit inducing hits and that twatty one about world events, so he's going into the Douchbag? file along with the likes of Dave Matthews for later investigation!
As for this Ben Folds album, I think my feeling about it is summed up by the Gracie track, it very much sounds like the musical accompaniment to the montage bit that moves along the timeline in a Pixar film. That's not a condemnation just an observation and by implication in bracketing him with the likes of Randy Newman and Sarah McLachlan I'm not having a pop (albeit I suspect Folds fancies himself as a bit more biting and incisive). That said, Newman doesn't typically pack his soundtracks exclusively with similar songs, there's a bit of light and shade that's missing from this for me. I think another parallel to Pixar songs is in the level of emotional depth, some of them work really well in context but suffer when taken out of that context. Here there is no additional context and sometimes the lyrics work and other times they sound a bit like they've come from fortune cookies. All that said there are plenty of times like Jesusland where he hits his mark too, which leaves me feeling there's an EP of enjoyable music for me here rather than an 11 track album.
I don't dislike it and though I can see why he winds some posters up I don't feel that strongly about his vocals or reading too much into his personality etc. However if I compare this to his collaboration with Shatner, it comes off worse because with that album there's a sense of intrigue and jeopardy. Am I listening to a man happy to debase himself doing cod art for a few quid? is he actually delusional or is he a comedy genius? or am I listening to a reflection of a life with a number of artistic and personal regrets? is it possible these options are not mutually exclusive anyway? In contrast not a lot actually happens for me on this album.
Ben Folds is not a mug by any stretch of the imagination but it needed a bit more variety for me 6.5/10.
As for this Ben Folds album, I think my feeling about it is summed up by the Gracie track, it very much sounds like the musical accompaniment to the montage bit that moves along the timeline in a Pixar film. That's not a condemnation just an observation and by implication in bracketing him with the likes of Randy Newman and Sarah McLachlan I'm not having a pop (albeit I suspect Folds fancies himself as a bit more biting and incisive). That said, Newman doesn't typically pack his soundtracks exclusively with similar songs, there's a bit of light and shade that's missing from this for me. I think another parallel to Pixar songs is in the level of emotional depth, some of them work really well in context but suffer when taken out of that context. Here there is no additional context and sometimes the lyrics work and other times they sound a bit like they've come from fortune cookies. All that said there are plenty of times like Jesusland where he hits his mark too, which leaves me feeling there's an EP of enjoyable music for me here rather than an 11 track album.
I don't dislike it and though I can see why he winds some posters up I don't feel that strongly about his vocals or reading too much into his personality etc. However if I compare this to his collaboration with Shatner, it comes off worse because with that album there's a sense of intrigue and jeopardy. Am I listening to a man happy to debase himself doing cod art for a few quid? is he actually delusional or is he a comedy genius? or am I listening to a reflection of a life with a number of artistic and personal regrets? is it possible these options are not mutually exclusive anyway? In contrast not a lot actually happens for me on this album.
Ben Folds is not a mug by any stretch of the imagination but it needed a bit more variety for me 6.5/10.
Utter Douchebags - a potential theme for the playlist thread perhaps?I am building up a file of artists that I don't really know but who are according to Foggy in fact douchebags, all with a view to having a douchebag listening weekend at some point to see what I make of them myself. Despite Billy Joel being super famous I only know a couple of his vomit inducing hits and that twatty one about world events, so he's going into the Douchbag? file along with the likes of Dave Matthews for later investigation!
As for this Ben Folds album, I think my feeling about it is summed up by the Gracie track, it very much sounds like the musical accompaniment to the montage bit that moves along the timeline in a Pixar film. That's not a condemnation just an observation and by implication in bracketing him with the likes of Randy Newman and Sarah McLachlan I'm not having a pop (albeit I suspect Folds fancies himself as a bit more biting and incisive). That said, Newman doesn't typically pack his soundtracks exclusively with similar songs, there's a bit of light and shade that's missing from this for me. I think another parallel to Pixar songs is in the level of emotional depth, some of them work really well in context but suffer when taken out of that context. Here there is no additional context and sometimes the lyrics work and other times they sound a bit like they've come from fortune cookies. All that said there are plenty of times like Jesusland where he hits his mark too, which leaves me feeling there's an EP of enjoyable music for me here rather than an 11 track album.
I don't dislike it and though I can see why he winds some posters up I don't feel that strongly about his vocals or reading too much into his personality etc. However if I compare this to his collaboration with Shatner, it comes off worse because with that album there's a sense of intrigue and jeopardy. Am I listening to a man happy to debase himself doing cod art for a few quid? is he actually delusional or is he a comedy genius? or am I listening to a reflection of a life with a number of artistic and personal regrets? is it possible these options are not mutually exclusive anyway? In contrast not a lot actually happens for me on this album.
Ben Folds is not a mug by any stretch of the imagination but it needed a bit more variety for me 6.5/10.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
Dammit, you a-holes are stealing my thunder!! My draft review brings up both Billy Joel AND Dave Matthews, though I just dislike Matthews' music -- I've never thought enough about him to determine whether or not he's worth paying attention to outside his lame, lame songs (or song, since from what I've heard they all sound alike). I guess the defining thread is musicians who have achieved cult status by appealing to the lowest common denominator of middle-class white American boys. Their music is like chewing gum -- it loses its flavo(u)r after about 15 seconds. Bon Jovi and Jimmy Buffett have both the slightly-above and slightly-below median income sub-segment of this demographic market cornered, though geographically, it's always good to target big states like New Jersey and Florida as they did. There's a reason no good bands came out of Rutgers or University of Miami and instead came out of UGA in Athens and UNC in Chapel Hill.
The douchebag part comes when said artists deign to comment on other people's music (i.e. really just Mr. Joel) rather than just doing their thing and looking for offshore tax shelters in their spare time.
The douchebag part comes when said artists deign to comment on other people's music (i.e. really just Mr. Joel) rather than just doing their thing and looking for offshore tax shelters in their spare time.
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I got those toy story vibes as well, except Newman did them perfectly.I am building up a file of artists that I don't really know but who are according to Foggy in fact douchebags, all with a view to having a douchebag listening weekend at some point to see what I make of them myself. Despite Billy Joel being super famous I only know a couple of his vomit inducing hits and that twatty one about world events, so he's going into the Douchbag? file along with the likes of Dave Matthews for later investigation!
As for this Ben Folds album, I think my feeling about it is summed up by the Gracie track, it very much sounds like the musical accompaniment to the montage bit that moves along the timeline in a Pixar film. That's not a condemnation just an observation and by implication in bracketing him with the likes of Randy Newman and Sarah McLachlan I'm not having a pop (albeit I suspect Folds fancies himself as a bit more biting and incisive). That said, Newman doesn't typically pack his soundtracks exclusively with similar songs, there's a bit of light and shade that's missing from this for me. I think another parallel to Pixar songs is in the level of emotional depth, some of them work really well in context but suffer when taken out of that context. Here there is no additional context and sometimes the lyrics work and other times they sound a bit like they've come from fortune cookies. All that said there are plenty of times like Jesusland where he hits his mark too, which leaves me feeling there's an EP of enjoyable music for me here rather than an 11 track album.
I don't dislike it and though I can see why he winds some posters up I don't feel that strongly about his vocals or reading too much into his personality etc. However if I compare this to his collaboration with Shatner, it comes off worse because with that album there's a sense of intrigue and jeopardy. Am I listening to a man happy to debase himself doing cod art for a few quid? is he actually delusional or is he a comedy genius? or am I listening to a reflection of a life with a number of artistic and personal regrets? is it possible these options are not mutually exclusive anyway? In contrast not a lot actually happens for me on this album.
Ben Folds is not a mug by any stretch of the imagination but it needed a bit more variety for me 6.5/10.
I like BB's tag: Friends music.
threespires
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I got those toy story vibes as well, except Newman did them perfectly.
I like BB's tag: Friends music.
Agree Newman extremely good at those soundtracks.
Think the Friends reference somewhat harsh, there's really not much within popular culture that competes with the crassness of that particular show.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Agree Newman extremely good at those soundtracks.
Think the Friends reference somewhat harsh, there's really not much within popular culture that competes with the crassness of that particular show.
This matches it to a tee. It's all so very twee. Unoffensive even when he swears.