The Album Review Club - Week #195 (page 1310) - A New World Record - ELO

RobMCFC said:
Beautifully written as ever. After your Edinburgh/Mars comment, I was expecting some comedy lambasting but it seems you at least appreciated some of it.

However, I think the writing is on the wall here when even those who appreciate what the album is trying to do award 4s and 5s.
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Cheers Rob. The worst part about this record is what it could have been, I think. For wasted potential it's right up there. Then again, if what I read is right, this album sold the best and was considered their apex, so maybe this is as good as they could do.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I’m not inherently pre-disposed to dislike psychedelic music, nor folk music, but I am pre-disposed to intensely detest psychedelic folk musicians.

Rejecting society before it rejects them, so many were utterly self-indulgent, fatuous, drug-gobbling dreamers who talked in serious tones about the necessity of change as long as someone else is doing the changing and they were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted.

I’m reminded of Robert Christgau’s comment about Sting, which he also applied to Pete Townsend, and could equally be applied to so many hippies of this era: “We’re not just spirits in the material world – we’re also matter in the material world, which is why things get sticky.”

That said, music doesn’t necessarily have to ground itself in reality, and in fact, reality offers musicians an infinite variety of options to produce art. What’s winning about this record is that the (very possibly horrible) people that made it took advantage of their options, leveraged them, and made something the likes of which I’ve never heard.

In many respects, this is like looking at a beautiful flower, and then picking it, and then deconstructing it to see how its made in all its parts. Inside you find what makes it grow, the seeds for the future, strange shapes and ugliness and bits and pieces and utility, but also colo(u)r and beauty.

But that doesn’t mean I enjoyed this, because I decidedly did not. The opener is odd enough, but the minotaur thing is a show tune. I like exactly one-and-a-half show tunes: “Wait For It” from Hamilton, and the chorus part of “Into the Woods” (RIP Stephen Sondheim). It’s an appalling, cloying, irritating, annoying piece of wank and it damn near ruins the record. I HATED this song. I mean I DETESTED it.

And I am so freaking sick and tired of songs over ten minutes that when I saw how long “A Very Cellular Song” was, I almost gave up. But fortunately “Witches Hat” rebuilt a bit of credibility after the minotaur one, so I stuck around. And I’m glad I did. Yes, this is all dated and strange, but to a certain degree this is a triumph. The old religious standard is actually gorgeous, and the return to the unusual organ breaks and squeaking violin and jumping around vignette to vignette and the bit about amoebas – it’s all so weird and curious, I couldn’t help but derive some enjoyment out of the journey itself, which is maybe the point.

“Mercy I Cry City” is more straight-ahead folk competently performed and partially competently sung (maybe the best thing here), but “Waltz Of The New Moon” is awfully grating. Re: “The Water Song” -- I have no inherent issue with songs about water -- FFS, the most famous song on what was long the number one record on BlueHammer’s list in the other thread is all about water -- but this seemed a throwaway.

I note “Swift As The Wind” is a favo(u)rite of many here, though apparently it scared poor @RobMCFC, but I didn’t find this any more intriguing or attractive aurally than anything else here. But there’s little sitar break right before the chorus of “Nightfall”, and the chorus itself, that nearly rise to the level of beauty. I think maybe this was the one song I wished was longer.

If I’m going to complain about singers like I have before -- whether Geddy Lee, John Wetton or Peter Gabriel -- I’m pretty much trapped into doing so here. The deliberately out-of-tune cacophony doesn’t add to the uniqueness, it detracts. And it’s a shame, because I think a talented vocalist could lift these songs up in a way that wouldn’t detract from their lilt and would add something.

Do I like it? On the whole, I do not. Should I like it? On the whole, I don’t believe I’m supposed to, nor do I believe the artists care. I think the operative question is a meta one -- CAN I like it? In that regard, I very much can. I can because the reach exceeds the grasp. I can because the ideas are interesting despite the execution. I can because the stylistic movement song to song is varied, and the underpinnings are grounded in what the artists know – Scottish folk -- and what they found lying around the house as remnants of their travels -- meaning sitars, finger-cymbals, flutes and their girlfriends.

It's really hard to know how to attach a number value here. There’s a disconnect between the result and the goal, I think. “A curate’s egg” was a wonderful description. I think I will go with 4/10 – there’s not a lot of visceral enjoyment, but there ARE bits, and it is a unique accomplishment, and that should matter.
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You have a talent in writing
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
In many respects, this is like looking at a beautiful flower, and then picking it, and then deconstructing it to see how its made in all its parts. Inside you find what makes it grow, the seeds for the future, strange shapes and ugliness and bits and pieces and utility, but also colo(u)r and beauty.
Click to expand...
That bit sounds like its been written by a psychedelic folk musician. I can see Steve Peregrine Took on the bongos accompanying that. ;-)
 
journolud said:
So could the scores you give go down as well as up?
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Well, the records are static but businesses aren't, so . . .

But I suppose I was less attuned to things like misogyny as a teenager, so I liked a few artists more than now because now their lyrics make me uncomfortable when I listen to them today vs then.

At the same time, Mark Knopfler is an unabashed homophobe and Guns 'n' Posers did some virulently racist and anti-gay stuff that I recognized right away and hated then and now because of it.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Well, the records are static but businesses aren't, so . . .

But I suppose I was less attuned to things like misogyny as a teenager, so I liked a few artists more than now because now their lyrics make me uncomfortable when I listen to them today vs then.

At the same time, Mark Knopfler is an unabashed homophobe and Guns 'n' Posers did some virulently racist and anti-gay stuff that I recognized right away and hated then and now because of it.
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Based on what?
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Based on the lyrics to "In the Gallery", "Les Boys" and "Money For Nothing."
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In the Gallery is about a Northern artist who died without recognition and was written when Knopfler saw what he deemed as unworthy examples of art in a London art room. I'm not seeing anything untoward there myself. Written at the time of the North/South divide starting to take hold in the UK and as a Scot-Geordie, MK would have been very aware of this.

Money for Nothing is known for using the fa____ word of course, but this was written in different times and he wrote that particular lyric for a character in the song. It's no different to the way Seth McFarlane writes words for Peter Griffin today but I wouldn't attribute that character's opinions onto their creator. Would Knopfler use the word today in a song? Of course not, but in a way it's sad that he can't because it hides the fact characters like that still exist.

Les Boys is possibly one of the first songs written by a rock/pop group to openly talk about gay characters in its lyrics. I never felt comfortable with it because it could be viewed as dreadfully stereotyped and defines the characters as operating in seedy areas however the lyrics also suggest that they are purely teasing the clientele and actually don't engage in anything other than that but would prefer to dream of Jean Genet, who was a homosexual political activist. I'm unsure of where Knopfler was going with this song, personally, but I don't see a hatred in there. Brave to write about it all the same.
 
Citizen of Legoland said:
In the Gallery is about a Northern artist who died without recognition and was written when Knopfler saw what he deemed as unworthy examples of art in a London art room. I'm not seeing anything untoward there myself. Written at the time of the North/South divide starting to take hold in the UK and as a Scot-Geordie, MK would have been very aware of this.

Money for Nothing is known for using the fa____ word of course, but this was written in different times and he wrote that particular lyric for a character in the song. It's no different to the way Seth McFarlane writes words for Peter Griffin today but I wouldn't attribute that character's opinions onto their creator. Would Knopfler use the word today in a song? Of course not, but in a way it's sad that he can't because it hides the fact characters like that still exist.

Les Boys is possibly one of the first songs written by a rock/pop group to openly talk about gay characters in its lyrics. I never felt comfortable with it because it could be viewed as dreadfully stereotyped and defines the characters as operating in seedy areas however the lyrics also suggest that they are purely teasing the clientele and actually don't engage in anything other than that but would prefer to dream of Jean Genet, who was a homosexual political activist. I'm unsure of where Knopfler was going with this song, personally, but I don't see a hatred in there. Brave to write about it all the same.
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Might as well tar Shane McGowan with the same brush.
 
Citizen of Legoland said:
In the Gallery is about a Northern artist who died without recognition and was written when Knopfler saw what he deemed as unworthy examples of art in a London art room. I'm not seeing anything untoward there myself. Written at the time of the North/South divide starting to take hold in the UK and as a Scot-Geordie, MK would have been very aware of this.

Money for Nothing is known for using the fa____ word of course, but this was written in different times and he wrote that particular lyric for a character in the song. It's no different to the way Seth McFarlane writes words for Peter Griffin today but I wouldn't attribute that character's opinions onto their creator. Would Knopfler use the word today in a song? Of course not, but in a way it's sad that he can't because it hides the fact characters like that still exist.

Les Boys is possibly one of the first songs written by a rock/pop group to openly talk about gay characters in its lyrics. I never felt comfortable with it because it could be viewed as dreadfully stereotyped and defines the characters as operating in seedy areas however the lyrics also suggest that they are purely teasing the clientele and actually don't engage in anything other than that but would prefer to dream of Jean Genet, who was a homosexual political activist. I'm unsure of where Knopfler was going with this song, personally, but I don't see a hatred in there. Brave to write about it all the same.
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The reference to the “trendy boys” in “In The Gallery” was at the time, definitively code for gay men. Why make the reference at all?

The “Money for Nothing” line — the most controversial because it was the most popular song — begs the question — why does the “character” NEED to say it? For shock value? As someone else pointed out, if he had said “little ______ with the spit curl”, wouldn’t the world — including MTV — have been outraged?

In the context of “Les Boys” — which I find akin to Knopfler looking at animals in a zoo — and the “trendy boys” (who screw the “real artist”, of course, in the song), I think my conclusion about him is correct.

That’s not to say I don’t appreciate some of DS music or Knopfler’s skill as a guitarist. But it’s been very hard to get beyond these references.
 
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I travelled to Hebden to offer my new airbuds an outing whilst channeling thoughts and listening in to DLBH's album choice.

I asked many boats along the road to Sowerby if they had ever heard of The Incredible String Band from Scotland, but I just drew derisory blanks. Boats can be rented so they had to be day trippers and tourists buying into perceived ecleptic dreams as there was no other plausible explanation too chew upon.

I thought that this place was the home of shiny happy people-hippi-ism and the spiturally religious that go by the name of New Age. Adopting beliefs of the holistic as forms of divinity and then marrying their inner self to be being as one with that universe. I used to be a trainee hippie back in the day owning a full length and a sleevless Afghan, beautifying my mantra with petuli oil in a desperate desire to fit in.

Spiritual wisdom and the age of Aquarious my arsehole as these day trippers knew nothing about nothing, so after listening to the album in more depth we retreated to a centrally heated Micro Pub back in town.

You have to close quarter chat in these places as they are so small which is a good thing as it encourages dialogue. After a flaggon or two of Bosuns IPA a customer we befriended said he'd actually owned the album and that it is easy to dispell the band without first examing what they were really all about.

One of the songs on the album a Very Cellular Song aparantly has connection with the kundalini yoga movement and that the music is well connected in the area Hebden so may the long time sun shine upon you.

On returning home I did some research off the Tube and it transpires that the kiunduli movement song may the long time sun shine is Mike Herons work and not belonging one iota to their movement. It is in fact the final composition of the Very Cellular Song and may the long time sun shine upon you, all love surround you and the pure light within you, guide you all the way on.

If thats not lyrics to die for, then I will show my arse in Burtons Window. I didn't want to just listen and dispell the album out of hand because it did receive some well recognised adulation, so it's only fair to listen in and dig as deep as possible. "Open my eyes that I may see, glimpses of truth thou hast for me; Place in my hands the wonderful key, that shall unclasp and set me free" .. Oh yes indeed!

I guess the cellurar song is my favourite from the album next to Minotaur and the more I play it the more I become embroiled. Have a read below as it explains things far more eloquently than ever I could. I guess there's nothing wrong with chanting .. but there is a time and a place.

www.3ho.org

Welcome

Welcome! 3HO.org has a new look! Things look a little different around here and we’re confident you'll find something that you love.
www.3ho.org www.3ho.org

I would add lyrics to this fine song but we'd be here all day ... but safe to say they are quite exscuisite.

I am not going to dwell into detail with the albums other offerings as some were more pleasing than others.
I think poster Mr Journolud said it best when he mentioned that... It's not that I look on this like I do my first ex-wife and wonder what did I see in her but it's more a case of the little quirks that used to be so endearing are now, well you know how it goes. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan .. the times they are a changing and what tickled us all back in the day may not tickle us in the hear and now.

Quote from the intraweb:
"This album has the unique characteristic of being new (not just fresh) each time I listen to it (and I listen to it a lot!). I don't find this phenomenon in any other album. There seems to be infinite paths for the mind to follow through each song, I think due to the spontaneous, creative approach by the band to the music and compositions. Robin Williamson's lyrics seem to lead you in a variety of directions on each hearing, as well. It remains completely novel, an understated, complex-yet-simple integrated work by a group plugged into something big"

I wouldn't have listed to this album if were not for this thread and so I shall happily score it a solid 6.85/10

If anyone fancies a trip to Hebden to seek enlightenment from their utterly mundane City lifestyles then after using your 2 together railcards mentioned in the B.F thread you can have a" find your inner self day trip" for only £7 return direct from the Victoria station.

The Mike Heron Band A very Cellurar Song..Live at record store day 2013 ..Incredible String Band



Atmospherics to die for !
 
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Two Gun Bob said:
I travelled to Hebden to offer my new airbuds an outing whilst channeling thoughts and listening in to DLBH's album choice.

I asked many boats along the road to Sowerby if they had ever heard of The Incredible String Band from Scotland, but I just drew derisory blanks. Boats can be rented so they had to be day trippers and tourists buying into perceived ecleptic dreams as there was no other plausible explanation too chew upon.

I thought that this place was the home of shiny happy people-hippi-ism and the spiturally religious that go by the name of New Age. Adopting beliefs of the holistic as forms of divinity and then marrying their inner self to be being as one with that universe. I used to be a trainee hippie back in the day owning a full length and a sleevless Afghan, beautifying my mantra with petuli oil in a desperate desire to fit in.

Spiritual wisdom and the age of Aquarious my arsehole as these day trippers knew nothing about nothing, so after listening to the album in more depth we retreated to a centrally heated Micro Pub back in town.

You have to close quarter chat in these places as they are so small which is a good thing as it encourages dialogue. After a flaggon or two of Bosuns IPA a customer we befriended said he'd actually owned the album and that it is easy to dispell the band without first examing what they were really all about.

One of the songs on the album a Very Cellular Song aparantly connection with the kundalini yoga movement and that the music's well connected in the area Hebden so may the long time sun shine upon you.

On returning home I did some research off the Tube and it transpires that the kiunduli movement song may the long time sun shine is Mike Herons work and not belonging one iota to their movement. It is in fact the final composition of the Very Cellular Song and may the long time sun shine upon you, all love surround you and the pure light within you, guide you all the way on.

If thats not lyrics to die for, then I will show my arse in Burtons Window. I didn't want to just listen and dispell the album out of hand because it did receive some well recognised adulation, so it's only fair to listen in and dig as deep as possible. "Open my eyes that I may see, glimpses of truth thou hast for me; Place in my hands the wonderful key, that shall unclasp and set me free" .. Oh yes indeed!

I guess the cellurar song is my favourite from the album next to Minotaur and the more I play it the more I become embroiled. Have a read below as it explains things far more eloquently than ever I could. I guess there's nothing wrong with chanting .. but there is a time and a place.

www.3ho.org

Welcome

Welcome! 3HO.org has a new look! Things look a little different around here and we’re confident you'll find something that you love.
www.3ho.org www.3ho.org

I would add lyrics to this fine song but we'd be here all day ... but safe to say they are quite exscuisite.

I am not going to dwell into detail with the albums other offerings as some were more pleasing than others.
I think poster Mr Journolud said it best when he mentioned that... It's not that I look on this like I do my first ex-wife and wonder what did I see in her but it's more a case of the little quirks that used to be so endearing are now, well you know how it goes. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan .. the times they are a changing and what tickled us all back in the day may not tickle us in the hear and now.

Quote from the intraweb:
"This album has the unique characteristic of being new (not just fresh) each time I listen to it (and I listen to it a lot!). I don't find this phenomenon in any other album. There seems to be infinite paths for the mind to follow through each song, I think due to the spontaneous, creative approach by the band to the music and compositions. Robin Williamson's lyrics seem to lead you in a variety of directions on each hearing, as well. It remains completely novel, an understated, complex-yet-simple integrated work by a group plugged into something big"

I wouldn't have listed to this album if were not for this thread and so I shall happily score it a solid 6.85/10

If anyone fancies a trip to Hebden to seek enlightenment from their utterly mundane City lifestyles then after using your 2 together railcards mentioned in the B.F thread you can have a" find your inner self day trip" for only £7 return.

The Mike Heron Band A very Cellurar Song..Live at record day store 2013 ..Incredible String Band



Atmospherics to die for !
Click to expand...

Bob, I take my imaginary hat off to you. Your review was an extremely good read, showing that there's more than to a review that saying either "it's shit" or "it's the best thing ever".

True, I was tempted to ask if you tripped and banged your head somewhere along the canal towpath, but reading your piece was nothing less than entertaining. You are welcome in here any time and I hope you stick around to share your thoughts on all the albums we've got to come over the weeks, months and years.

I was tempted to complain about your 6.85 rating, but what the hell, I'm using Excel to generate the averages so I'm quite happy to accept any number between 0.0000001 and 10.
 
RobMCFC said:
I was tempted to complain about your 6.85 rating, but what the hell, I'm using Excel to generate the averages so I'm quite happy to accept any number between 0.0000001 and 10.
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Blame the Europhiles..that's what I say : /
 
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Two Gun Bob said:
I travelled to Hebden to offer my new airbuds an outing whilst channeling thoughts and listening in to DLBH's album choice.

I asked many boats along the road to Sowerby if they had ever heard of The Incredible String Band from Scotland, but I just drew derisory blanks. Boats can be rented so they had to be day trippers and tourists buying into perceived ecleptic dreams as there was no other plausible explanation too chew upon.

I thought that this place was the home of shiny happy people-hippi-ism and the spiturally religious that go by the name of New Age. Adopting beliefs of the holistic as forms of divinity and then marrying their inner self to be being as one with that universe. I used to be a trainee hippie back in the day owning a full length and a sleevless Afghan, beautifying my mantra with petuli oil in a desperate desire to fit in.

Spiritual wisdom and the age of Aquarious my arsehole as these day trippers knew nothing about nothing, so after listening to the album in more depth we retreated to a centrally heated Micro Pub back in town.

You have to close quarter chat in these places as they are so small which is a good thing as it encourages dialogue. After a flaggon or two of Bosuns IPA a customer we befriended said he'd actually owned the album and that it is easy to dispell the band without first examing what they were really all about.

One of the songs on the album a Very Cellular Song aparantly has connection with the kundalini yoga movement and that the music is well connected in the area Hebden so may the long time sun shine upon you.

On returning home I did some research off the Tube and it transpires that the kiunduli movement song may the long time sun shine is Mike Herons work and not belonging one iota to their movement. It is in fact the final composition of the Very Cellular Song and may the long time sun shine upon you, all love surround you and the pure light within you, guide you all the way on.

If thats not lyrics to die for, then I will show my arse in Burtons Window. I didn't want to just listen and dispell the album out of hand because it did receive some well recognised adulation, so it's only fair to listen in and dig as deep as possible. "Open my eyes that I may see, glimpses of truth thou hast for me; Place in my hands the wonderful key, that shall unclasp and set me free" .. Oh yes indeed!

I guess the cellurar song is my favourite from the album next to Minotaur and the more I play it the more I become embroiled. Have a read below as it explains things far more eloquently than ever I could. I guess there's nothing wrong with chanting .. but there is a time and a place.

www.3ho.org

Welcome

Welcome! 3HO.org has a new look! Things look a little different around here and we’re confident you'll find something that you love.
www.3ho.org www.3ho.org

I would add lyrics to this fine song but we'd be here all day ... but safe to say they are quite exscuisite.

I am not going to dwell into detail with the albums other offerings as some were more pleasing than others.
I think poster Mr Journolud said it best when he mentioned that... It's not that I look on this like I do my first ex-wife and wonder what did I see in her but it's more a case of the little quirks that used to be so endearing are now, well you know how it goes. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan .. the times they are a changing and what tickled us all back in the day may not tickle us in the hear and now.

Quote from the intraweb:
"This album has the unique characteristic of being new (not just fresh) each time I listen to it (and I listen to it a lot!). I don't find this phenomenon in any other album. There seems to be infinite paths for the mind to follow through each song, I think due to the spontaneous, creative approach by the band to the music and compositions. Robin Williamson's lyrics seem to lead you in a variety of directions on each hearing, as well. It remains completely novel, an understated, complex-yet-simple integrated work by a group plugged into something big"

I wouldn't have listed to this album if were not for this thread and so I shall happily score it a solid 6.85/10

If anyone fancies a trip to Hebden to seek enlightenment from their utterly mundane City lifestyles then after using your 2 together railcards mentioned in the B.F thread you can have a" find your inner self day trip" for only £7 return direct from the Victoria station.

The Mike Heron Band A very Cellurar Song..Live at record store day 2013 ..Incredible String Band



Atmospherics to die for !
Click to expand...

Bloody Hell Two Gun, and Wow !
I loved reading your review. Ive always said since you "Lacota" days you have enormous talent, reading that first part (before being fully plasmatised by my first Lavazza of the day, Im 10 hours ahead of you remember) was like some Kendu religious experience on Hebden Bridge heather (always a Psychedelics place late 60s) listening to a dry stone wall reveal its secrets of witchery and midnight frolics.
You have indeed caught the essence of the Northmen. :)
 
I'm honestly not sure what to make of this album!

It's one I've not heard before from a band I've not come across before.

I like the "crossover" between folk music and the sitar, it's a really nice sound. Am I the only one who'd love to own a sitar? :) I didn't find that any of the songs stood out, but neither did I want to skip them either. I think it says a lot about them that if someone told me this was a new band, I wouldn't be surprised either. It sounds both psychedelic - and therefore from a certain few years - and yet new too.

Overall, I quite enjoyed it and I was quite curious to hear the next song, yet I'm not sure if I like it.

I honestly don't know how to score this one. I'm going to file it under "I'm not sure if I like it, so listen to it a few times as there's some decent songs on there". I normally come back to these kinds of albums.

6/10
 
I must admit I havent listened to any Folky Rocky Psychy music for years, bands like this and Pentangle, Fairport were introduced to me by a Celtic hippy girlfriend in the early 70's, she was a free spirit, the type who wanted to dance around Stonehenge naked, (I wasnt doing that) when she realized I was serious about being an Engineer and buying a house she moved on to another lover who also saw other ways of life (mainly poverty in squat like conditions), filled with "tangerine trees and marmalade skies. "
I couldve been drawn in fully but the "it makes better sense" side of me wouldnt let me take that imaginary Hippy bus to Kathmandu.
The music stayed with me however (unlike her) and I loved the Celtic imagery of these bands Pentangle probably being my favourite, although Fairports Sandy Denny had the best and purest voice of the lot of them.
For many fans this is a high point in the Incredible String Band discography..... it's shorter than the sprawling double album Wee Tam and the Big Huge, and crucially it predates their conversion to Scientology which sent them spinning down an often-contentious path - this is a nigh-archetypal work of psychedelic hippy folk. Nods to Indian raga music, a strange sense of humour, and the help of some friends allow the duo of Heron and Williamson to produce the closest a prerecorded studio album can get to sounding like a spontaneous hippy jam session.
I believe Fairport Convention guest on backing vocals, (they were mates) providing a chorus used to good effect in The Minotaur's Song.
This is a journey through all four corners of the acoustic side of psych, and a well steered one at that. There's just something about allowing oneself to enter into the light and welcoming the music ISB had to offer that even many folk bands forget about, then and now. Perhaps too minimalistic for some - and not by intention - but this is wonderful and enjoyable work. Yes the vocals wander slightly off key but for me it adds to the atmosphere and lets face it, were not listening a bloody West End Lloyd Webber branch of fakedom.
Love it or hate it, as you will but these guys were invested in this ancient music and I admire their lack of desire for materialism and Top Of The Pops adulation/$$$.

7/10

Im tempted to go higher as I dont want to lose bottom spot with Red, but honesty took over my intended craftiness.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
That bit sounds like its been written by a psychedelic folk musician. I can see Steve Peregrine Took on the bongos accompanying that. ;-)
Click to expand...
Now come on mate, nothing will match this..

"Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose
No bigger than a bubby's thumb.
Medieval dublet, elk horn ornamented woodland trumpet,
Cradling your musket son."

Who can work that one out and What is a bubby's thumb ?
 
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