The Boxing thread

[Paul1970]

Cracking fight with canelo and smith at the weekend but as per usual when there is a real threat to canelo he goes the safety of Vegas . Smith needs a knockout to get a decision I’m afraid .

 

[Paul1970]

If they do box next you're looking at at least twice. I would back AJ to get to Fury over 24 rounds. At some point he'll hurt Fury and it will be all on whether or not AJ will have the power, the know how and the patience to get Fury out of there when he has the opportunity. 18 months ago Fury would have schooled AJ but AJ has matured a lot in that time and added a number of strings to his bow.

Fury is levels above mate . Joshua has got a glass chin and as soon as he senses danger he runs . He beat a robotic pulev way past his best. Joshua Is a good fighter but nowhere near the likes fury and usyk in my opinion .

 

[jay_mcfc]

Fury is levels above mate . Joshua has got a glass chin and as soon as he senses danger he runs . He beat a robotic pulev way past his best. Joshua Is a good fighter but nowhere near the likes fury and usyk in my opinion .

So I keep hearing but we’ll see soon enough. Think a lot of people are gonna be surprised at how good Joshua is and even if he does lose it’s gonna be a lot closer than many think.

 

[Metalartin]

Joshua does not want to fight usyk truth be told. As he would dance round him all night and I don’t think he wants the fury fight either . I think both fighters would be too much for joshua that’s why he never mentions fury’s name

Nah, I don't think there's a fighter out there that AJ wont fight, if the fight makes sense. He's consistently taken the most risks out of anyone currently at HW, there's only Whyte that's comparable in that mindset.

Wilder gave away that he was bullshitting all along about AJ ducking him. That shows he was the one who didn't want it. He admitted in his own rants about Fury, that he was given a genuine offer, for way more money than the 2nd Fury fight. AJ has recently said, he'll still fight Wilder without a belt. Which you wouldn't hear from Wilder in the same position(said he'd freeze Whyte out for 2 years). I can't see Wilder taking that fight at any point though or the Whyte fight that Eddie is trying to put together, now that the Povetkin rematch is off the table due to COVID.

As for Fury, AJ/Hearn already offered Fury his biggest payday before the 2nd Wilder fight too(they were both offered it). A fighter Fury already said he had beaten in the first fight(I agreed) and apparently, it's not about the belts according to Fury. So according to the fanboys' own standards, that should mean Fury was "ducking" AJ. I know why he turned it down(the AJ fight becomes bigger with the WBC belt, Whyte did the same thing) but it's the double standards that annoy me.

Now AJ is left in an impossible position, to please some people. If he fights Fury, he has to drop the WBO belt and they'll say he's ducking Usyk. If he says: "Fury can wait, I want that fight to be the undisputed fight", then they'll say he's ducking Fury. When the truth is, he has full intentions of fighting both fighters and he has a good chance of beating both in my opinion.

I'm not saying he definitely will beat both but AJ isn't an easy fight for either of them. I can see it going either way in each of those fights. The good thing is, we'll most likely get to see those fights and then we'll have our answers, so it's not worth arguing too much about who wins. It would probably be wiser not to give someone no chance(or disrespect) in any of those fights though if anything because that could be embaressing come fight night.

 

[Metalartin]

Hearn just said recently that he's spoke to Arum and everything looks ok from both sides but Wilder might be the only roadblock to the AJ vs Fury fight. Maybe Arum has heard something about the mediation that Wilder entered last month.

I'd still be surprised if AJ is willing to drop the WBO. Having said that some boxing fans would still call the Fury fight the undisputed because the WBO wasn't considered a major belt until the 2000s. When Tyson and Lewis did it the WBO wasn't part of the equation. It's a shame that any organisation would try and get in the way of the biggest fight in boxing.

 

[Metalartin]

So I keep hearing but we’ll see soon enough. Think a lot of people are gonna be surprised at how good Joshua is and even if he does lose it’s gonna be a lot closer than many think.

Agreed, Usyk has the footwork but he's surprisingly easy to hit, even at HW, against fighters way below AJ's level. He doesn't move his head enough and he doesn't always see punches coming.

Fury does certain things better than AJ but he's not the perfect fighter by any means, he has his flaws too. His punching isn't always technically correct, nor are his feet(he can look sloppy in both areas) but he is awkward and elusive and can offset another fighters rhythm. He's an out and out boxer who's hard to beat IMO, who I doubt will be looking for a stoppage against AJ when they fight, no matter what he's said recently. Unless AJ is hurt by a temple shot or something(which is poor form from Fury to say he'll be looking for it, it's dangerous) I can see him going with a fight plan similar to the Wlad fight.

AJ was already a fighter that could beat most fighters out there at HW. Since the Ruiz Jr loss, he's become much harder to beat and way less predictable. It would probably suit AJ to hone the things he's added a while longer(a couple more fights but he wont play it that safe) but some people are in denial about the improvements he's made in the last 12months. They keep pointing to the opposition, when that's pretty irrelevant. Ruiz Jr never had fast feet, so the improvement we saw in AJ's footwork, including the lateral movement, had very little to do with Ruiz Jr. What AJ was doing passed the eye test on it's own. You can find a video on youtube, of AJ during the Superstars(Olympic) 2012 event, running 100m in 11.53 seconds, in wet conditions too(1st place, against Olympic runners like Mo Farah, who came 3rd). There's not many boxers in any division with feet that quick, he's a true athlete and I think he's at his optimal weight now.

In his last fight, the more observant boxing fans noticed the head movement(and the upper body) was on another level to anything AJ has shown before. The footwork was looking more polished too, the pivots out of danger were beautifully done at times. In attack, he was more tactical, he's feinting with purpose now and reading his opponents much better. He even did a 'pull counter' that Mayweather himself(if you know, you know) would have been proud of, with Mayweather watching at ringside.



He's a very intelligent boxer, who seems to be improving all the time, like all the best boxers do. He's one of the fastest learners I've seen, especially at HW, so personally I wouldn't write him off against anyone.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Agreed, Usyk has the footwork but he's surprisingly easy to hit, even at HW, against fighters way below AJ's level. He doesn't move his head enough and he doesn't always see punches coming.

Fury does certain things better than AJ but he's not the perfect fighter by any means, he has his flaws too. His punching isn't always technically correct, nor are his feet(he can look sloppy in both areas) but he is awkward and elusive and can offset another fighters rhythm.

AJ was already a fighter that could beat most fighters out there at HW. Since the Ruiz Jr loss he's become much harder to beat and way less predictable. It would probably suit AJ to hone the things he's added a while longer(a couple more fights) but some people are in denial about the improvements he's made in the last 12months. They keep pointing to the opposition when that's pretty irrelevant Ruiz Jr never had fast feet, so the improvement we saw in AJ's footwork, the lateral movement had very little to do with Ruiz Jr, what AJ was doing passed the eye test on it's own. You can find a video on youtube of AJ during the Superstars(Olympic) 2012, running 100m in 11.53 seconds, in wet conditions too(1st place against Olympic runners like Mo Farah who came 3rd). There's not many boxers in any division with feet that quick, he's a true athlete and I think he's at his optimal weight now.

In his last fight the more observant boxing fans noticed the head movement(and the upper body) was on another level to anything AJ has shown before, the footwork was looking more polished(the pivots out of danger were beautifully done at times). In attack he was more tactical, he's feinting with purpose now and reading his opponents much better, he did a pull counter that Mayweather himself would have been proud of, with Mayweather watching at ringside.

Brilliantly put. Personally I can't be arsed with the 85% of people that are just gonna say AJ is a plodder and Fury will school him.

And I agree with you, as sad as it is I would love this fight to be delayed another 18 months because AJ is nowhere near his peak. Either that or just let them fight 5 times, might as well since no one else will get near them.

The shot on that video is a thing of beauty. Shame it just clipped his shoulder otherwise that would have sparked him clean out.

Have you heard any of the podcasts with Whyte mouthing off about AJ having three trainers and making him confused? Whyte is such a knob, although a very likeable knob usually. That was only the second fight with Fernandez helping out and you can clearly see the positive effect he's having on AJ's movement and balance.

 

[Metalartin]

Brilliantly put. Personally I can't be arsed with the 85% of people that are just gonna say AJ is a plodder and Fury will school him.

And I agree with you, as sad as it is I would love this fight to be delayed another 18 months because AJ is nowhere near his peak. Either that or just let them fight 5 times, might as well since no one else will get near them.

The shot on that video is a thing of beauty. Shame it just clipped his shoulder otherwise that would have sparked him clean out.

Have you heard any of the podcasts with Whyte mouthing off about AJ having three trainers and making him confused? Whyte is such a knob, although a very likeable knob usually. That was only the second fight with Fernandez helping out and you can clearly see the positive effect he's having on AJ's movement and balance.

Yeah, I heard that but Whyte was just reading into things and guessing. I thought Angel has stuck around(it did work well last time) and the third guy, who McCracken brought in, is working on evolving his Ring IQ(showing him fight footage, talking tactics etc) rather than any physical training. I heard the latter on a boxing channel, I don't know for sure where that info came from though to be honest. Maybe there's an article somewhere or he's ITK but it did seem like AJ was talking more about past fighters and more tactically in the build up to the Pulev fight.

Regarding the inbetween styles comment, the bell came not long after the 2 knockdowns in the 3rd and then the corner had their say. So it could have been an instruction not to go for the KO in the 4th, which could have been because they knew how durable Pulev's chin was or because they wanted him to have some more rounds to use what they've been working on in a real fight, or both. I felt that Pulev didn't look ready to go until several rounds later, he recovered well(he was in better shape than he was for Wlad which helped with that) and AJ did start to show more footwork and head movement etc in the following rounds. Maybe, at times AJ had to resist the urge to try for the KO, when he hurt Pulev but that's not the same thing as being caught between 2 styles.

I also noticed AJ got caught with a few in the 8th round too, which might have been when they decided to tell him to get him out of there. Since AJ controlled the distance well with his feet, it was always at the very end of the punch and he was able to ride some of the power off by turning his head and leaning back with the punch. If that was deliberate, it needs some improvement but adding that ability(riding punches) for the punches that do get through, would be another string to his bow. It's an underrated skill in my opinion. Fury does that well to his credit, he didn't take Wilder's punch flush for that reason, it looked to me like the Cunningham knockdown hurt him more because he didn't see that one.

It sounded to me like DAZN and Sky themselves seem to be feeding into this "AJ's hesitant/unsure" theme, in their post fight analysis. I'm starting to think maybe they've just embraced the "vulnerable AJ" talking point, similar to how Floyd embraced his heel status because it sells. It is a shame people would rather look for negatives than give credit though. Ward and Arum's comments weren't even trying to hide their bias lol.

 

[Paul1970]

Ignoring that you're underrating Ruiz (just like Joshua and everyone else did), the bit about Fury is absolutely true. I can't argue with that. Nor can I argue with his win over Klitschko being right up there.

It's just the 0 losses argument. Joshua might not have any 1 win as good as Fury's but he has several wins against top, top fighters, each of whom are good enough to beat any fighter on their day, such is the heavyweight division.

Fury has the best wins, but he's only fought 2 guys that could reasonably have beaten him. If Fury fought as many top guys as Joshua did even though he could beat them all there's no saying he couldn't avoid an upset. I mean he's already been close to losing to Wilder, was a ref decision away from losing to Wallin due to a cut, and was rather lucky not to have lost to McDermott.

For me there are many reasons to say that Fury has a great resume, but I can't subscribe to the whole 0 losses business. I accept I may just be different to others here though.

Agreed, Usyk has the footwork but he's surprisingly easy to hit, even at HW, against fighters way below AJ's level. He doesn't move his head enough and he doesn't always see punches coming.

Fury does certain things better than AJ but he's not the perfect fighter by any means, he has his flaws too. His punching isn't always technically correct, nor are his feet(he can look sloppy in both areas) but he is awkward and elusive and can offset another fighters rhythm. He's an out and out boxer who's hard to beat IMO, who I doubt will be looking for a stoppage against AJ when they fight, no matter what he's said recently. Unless AJ is hurt by a temple shot or something(which is poor form from Fury to say he'll be looking for it, it's dangerous) I can see him going with a fight plan similar to the Wlad fight.

AJ was already a fighter that could beat most fighters out there at HW. Since the Ruiz Jr loss, he's become much harder to beat and way less predictable. It would probably suit AJ to hone the things he's added a while longer(a couple more fights but he wont play it that safe) but some people are in denial about the improvements he's made in the last 12months. They keep pointing to the opposition, when that's pretty irrelevant. Ruiz Jr never had fast feet, so the improvement we saw in AJ's footwork, including the lateral movement, had very little to do with Ruiz Jr. What AJ was doing passed the eye test on it's own. You can find a video on youtube, of AJ during the Superstars(Olympic) 2012 event, running 100m in 11.53 seconds, in wet conditions too(1st place, against Olympic runners like Mo Farah, who came 3rd). There's not many boxers in any division with feet that quick, he's a true athlete and I think he's at his optimal weight now.

In his last fight, the more observant boxing fans noticed the head movement(and the upper body) was on another level to anything AJ has shown before. The footwork was looking more polished too, the pivots out of danger were beautifully done at times. In attack, he was more tactical, he's feinting with purpose now and reading his opponents much better. He even did a 'pull counter' that Mayweather himself(if you know, you know) would have been proud of, with Mayweather watching at ringside.



He's a very intelligent boxer, who seems to be improving all the time, like all the best boxers do. He's one of the fastest learners I've seen, especially at HW, so personally I wouldn't write him off against anyone.

Respect your opinion mate but 4 years ago I said that usyk beats them all and tbh I still stand by that and I do think Joshua is the weaker of the three but I could be wrong as I was with the Joyce Dubois fight .

 

[Corky]

Smith v Ginger 4/5am looks like it is £1.99 on www.dazn.com for the month.

I imagine it will be a better fight than the one for £24.95 last week, although Smith has no chance of a points win over there.