The Boxing thread

[Paul1970]

I don't think there was much wrong with the judges scorecards. If they wanted to fix the fight, they could have scored it a draw regardless of how the last 3 rounds went. Most boxing sources I've looked at, are saying the judging was quite fair overall.

One judge scored it 8-3 Usyk, with one tied round. Another scored it 8-4 Usyk. The British judge scored it 7-5 Usyk. Considering AJ is the home fighter, there isn't much to complain about. It's just the usual twitter conspiracy talk.

I haven't re-watched full the fight yet but I will. I scored it 7-5 Usyk myself on first viewing. I wasn't listening to the commentary much either and I was sober while I watched it. I know some absolute fanatics(long time boxing only sports fans) who scored it the same too, so I know I'm in good company with that. Perhaps there is an element of guessing how the judges might score the closer rounds, given who the champion and home fighter is but equally those who wanted AJ to lose will score the closer rounds to Usyk by default too.

I noticed Roy Jones said similar to me after the fight in one of his interviews. AJ shouldn't have been so passive in the opening stages on the whole, he needed to bank as many of those as he could because Usyk was always going to be the the fresher fighter in the latter stages.

What I have done though is look at how others have scored it. Rounds 2, 4,5,6,8 are rounds that A LOT of people (including some at ringside, professional pundits, current and former fighters and boxing fans), scored for AJ.

Rounds 2 and 4 were swing rounds and I can explain why they were if anyone really wants me to, having watched those back(quite simple really). Most people scored 5,6 and 8 for AJ.

Some sources(Boxingscene) had AJ winning round 9 as well, despite his eye being damaged in that round. That was a big shot that landed in the last 30 seconds of the round but Usyk had took a lot of the round off before it because he was tiring, so there is an argument to be made for AJ there(I didn't score it that way personally). I think the amount of energy Usyk expended in the 7th impacted his output in the following two rounds. He definitely got his second wind though, that's for sure.

Good post mate but I think usyk won first 3 easy And last 4 easy which leaves the 5 rounds in between which were more competitive. I had Joshua winning 3 rounds tops tbh and I do believe if usyk hadn’t really gone to town in them last 4 we would be seeing a very bad decision like quite a few of Eddie’s main attractions who seem to get the nod when the Chips are down such as Katie Taylor in the garden against persoon

 

[Metalartin]

Good post mate but I think usyk won first 3 easy And last 4 easy which leaves the 5 rounds in between which were more competitive. I had Joshua winning 3 rounds tops tbh and I do believe if usyk hadn’t really gone to town in them last 4 we would be seeing a very bad decision like quite a few of Eddie’s main attractions who seem to get the nod when the Chips are down such as Katie Taylor in the garden against persoon

I'm not trying to change your mind on how you scored because having watched some of the rounds again I can see the arguments from both sides. To get a 9-3 you've only given AJ the rounds that you had to though, so it's minimum rather than maximum. After this explanation, if you still can't see what I'm saying we are best off agreeing to disagree though.

I can see why you think it might have been unfair to have it even after the 8th because in all fairness rounds 1 and 3 and 7 were stronger-more dominant than any round AJ had in those first 8 rounds. That's not really relevant though, each round starts with a clean slate. You yourself gave AJ 3 rounds in those rounds(were they 5,6 and 8 out of interest?), giving a score of 5-3 after the 8th, which means you're really arguing over 1 round and there were 2 swing rounds in there, whether you identified them at the time or not.

More people seem to have scored the 2nd round for AJ than they did the 4th between the two swing rounds, from the boxing fan scorecards I've looked at. In the first half of the round, AJ landed the better shots, even though Usyk was displaying the better ringmanship and defence, AJ still got some good shots in((landed to the body and head forcing Usyk to retreat on more than one occassion). I actually think Usyk felt those punches(especially the body shots) and the round became a little cagier at the half way point, he started feinting more but really only went on the attack and turned the heat up in the last 40 seconds. To some, the closing stages left a lasting impression and they scored it to Usyk(that's fine) to others AJ was winning more of that round and thought Usyk gave up too much of it without landing enough to get the nod(also fine).

Round 4, is the first round AJ started to make some meaningful adjustments of his own, he was feinting himself, moving better and found success with his own shots. AJ caught Usyk clean in this round, enough to firstly mark up his eye and eventually open up a cut around the eye. Usyk landed the punch of the round(I seem to remember good left hook in the second half of the round) but AJ did more damage to Usyk in this round and finished the round touching him with the jab several times(those still count and he was reacting to them). Roy Jones acknowledged AJ's adjustments and both he and Darren Barker gave the 4th to AJ in commentary.

You don't have to score either of these rounds for AJ yourself but you can't really argue if someone did is my point, because of the above reasons. Along with the fact that, plenty enough people have scored those rounds differently, to show they really were swing rounds.

 

[bluemc1]

I don't think there was much wrong with the judges scorecards. If they wanted to fix the fight, they could have scored it a draw regardless of how the last 3 rounds went. Most boxing sources I've looked at, are saying the judging was quite fair overall.

One judge scored it 8-3 Usyk, with one tied round. Another scored it 8-4 Usyk. The British judge scored it 7-5 Usyk. Considering AJ is the home fighter, there isn't much to complain about. It's just the usual twitter conspiracy talk.

I haven't re-watched full the fight yet but I will. I scored it 7-5 Usyk myself on first viewing. I wasn't listening to the commentary much either and I was sober while I watched it. I know some absolute fanatics(long time boxing only sports fans) who scored it the same too, so I know I'm in good company with that. Perhaps there is an element of guessing how the judges might score the closer rounds, given who the champion and home fighter is but equally those who wanted AJ to lose will score the closer rounds to Usyk by default too.

I noticed Roy Jones said similar to me after the fight in one of his interviews. AJ shouldn't have been so passive in the opening stages on the whole, he needed to bank as many of those as he could because Usyk was always going to be the the fresher fighter in the latter stages.

What I have done though is look at how others have scored it. Rounds 2, 4,5,6,8 are rounds that A LOT of people (including some at ringside, professional pundits, current and former fighters and boxing fans), scored for AJ.

Rounds 2 and 4 were swing rounds and I can explain why they were if anyone really wants me to, having watched those back(quite simple really). Most people scored 5,6 and 8 for AJ.

Some sources(Boxingscene) had AJ winning round 9 as well, despite his eye being damaged in that round. That was a big shot that landed in the last 30 seconds of the round but Usyk had took a lot of the round off before it because he was tiring, so there is an argument to be made for AJ there(I didn't score it that way personally). I think the amount of energy Usyk expended in the 7th impacted his output in the following two rounds. He definitely got his second wind though, that's for sure.

not watched back but think I thought the 4th could easily be scored either way and 5th was the first I had AJ taking

 

[Paul1970]

I'm not trying to change your mind on how you scored because having watched some of the rounds again I can see the arguments from both sides. To get a 9-3 you've only given AJ the rounds that you had to though, so it's minimum rather than maximum. After this explanation, if you still can't see what I'm saying we are best off agreeing to disagree though.

I can see why you think it might have been unfair to have it even after the 8th because in all fairness rounds 1 and 3 and 7 were stronger-more dominant than any round AJ had in those first 8 rounds. That's not really relevant though, each round starts with a clean slate. You yourself gave AJ 3 rounds in those rounds(were they 5,6 and 8 out of interest?), giving a score of 5-3 after the 8th, which means you're really arguing over 1 round and there were 2 swing rounds in there, whether you identified them at the time or not.

More people seem to have scored the 2nd round for AJ than they did the 4th between the two swing rounds, from the boxing fan scorecards I've looked at. In the first half of the round, AJ landed the better shots, even though Usyk was displaying the better ringmanship and defence, AJ still got some good shots in((landed to the body and head forcing Usyk on more than one occassion). I actually think Usyk felt those punches(especially the body shots) and the round became a little cagier at the half way point, he started feinting more but really only went on the attack and turned the heat up in the last 40 seconds. To some, the closing stages left a lasting impression and they scored it to Usyk(that's fine) to others AJ was winning more of that round and thought Usyk gave up too much of it without landing enough to get the nod(also fine).

Round 4, is the first round AJ started to make some meaningful adjustments of his own, he was feinting himself, moving better and found success with his own shots. AJ caught Usyk clean in this round, enough to firstly mark up his eye and eventually open up a cut around the eye. Usyk landed the punch of the round(I seem to remember good left hook in the second half of the round) but AJ did more damage to Usyk in this round and finished the round touching him with the jab several times(those still count and he was reacting to them). Roy Jones acknowledged AJ's adjustments and both he and Darren Barker gave the 4th to AJ in commentary.

You don't have to score either of these rounds for AJ yourself but you can't really argue if someone did is my point, because of the above reasons. Along with the fact that, plenty enough people have scored those rounds differently, to show they really were swing rounds.

This is the beauty of boxing because we can both watch the same fight and see things differently like Saturday night for instance . Even though he goes straight for the renatch I thinks it’s a bad idea because to beat usyk he will have to go to war with him which means he will be exposed and run a he risk of being knocked out like he nearly did on Saturday so I think he should take a step back and see what happens after fury and wilder or maybe even try and get dillian whyte in the ring which will be a really good domestic fight but not an easy fight . I have watched usyk since he was an amateur and always knew that he would everything he went for so I was happy he won . Good post by the way mate .

 

[Metalartin]

This is the beauty of boxing because we can both watch the same fight and see things differently like Saturday night for instance . Even though he goes straight for the renatch I thinks it’s a bad idea because to beat usyk he will have to go to war with him which means he will be exposed and run a he risk of being knocked out like he nearly did on Saturday so I think he should take a step back and see what happens after fury and wilder or maybe even try and get dillian whyte in the ring which will be a really good domestic fight but not an easy fight . I have watched usyk since he was an amateur and always knew that he would everything he went for so I was happy he won . Good post by the way mate .

Yeah, I remember us having the Usyk discussion around the time he moved up in weight to be fair.

 

[Marlo]

I've seen Hearn talking about it which is weird, he might just get away with Fury/Joshua if AJ knocks out a gatekeeper or two but if Usyk does a job on him again in a rematch then it really is dead and buried.

Think he might try to go after Wilder if he loses to Fury. Let Usyk and Fury fight it out then take on the winner.

The big wild card in this is Fury, talented boxer but you do wonder how much he is actually arsed about it and whether he actually wants to fight anyone

 

[leighton]

Do

you not think Fury could use his size much more effectively than Joshua to take a points win?

He could do but i just think Usyk is a level above all in this division. His movement is way more better than the movement of Fury. Fury will tire out trying to get a hold of him. You cant be going in there weighing 19 stone as Usyk wont be that heavy and its speed and mobility that will win Usyk the fight. Fury isnt a puncher no stand out KO power where 1 punch will do his damage in any of the fights.

 

[Manchester1894]

Happy for Usyk, but not a fan of boxers moving up. Seen a few boxers get a win at a much bigger weight and look absolutely dejected afterwards. Usyk's body language was although the boxing from him was good and avoided danger, the standard shots were much much heavier and I think he might have even been a bit subdued due to the wear and tear a fight brings.

 

[Gundog’s Gundog]

Really looking forward to the Liam Smith v Fowler fight next week, I love a good domestic clash. Liam’s undoubtedly past his peak but should still have comfortably enough to deal with this gobshite. Decent undercard too with Ted Cheeseman featuring. Never in a bad fight that lad.

 

[LongsightM13]

2016 Rio Olympics boxing bouts confirmed as having been ‘manipulated’ ie ‘bent as fuck’. Seems those involving Russian fighters were especially vulnerable to systemic cheating.
The Michael Conlon decision was particularly egregious, he won it by a country mile.


Rio Olympics: System to manipulate outcome of boxing matches by officials in place at 2016 Games
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58747880