The Boxing thread

oldius

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It's very unusual to see a fighter carry their power up the weights. Credit to Canelo for doing just that and seeming to become more powerful with every passing fight. He is so solid, well disciplined, and powerful that it will take a true artist, akin to Floyd, to beat him; the speed of hand and foot will be key.
 

leighton

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There is a god Barry's gone!!!
Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
 

Metalartin

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Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
There was only 1 failed drug test to the best of my knowledge. Edit: I see were the confusion is. It seems some sources are reporting it as two separate cases(deliberately), when it was just two results, that were only 3 days apart. So it was definitely the same case, either way you take that. If it was the B-sample(which he did request) as I suspect, then it was not even 2 separate tests from the same period. Which wouldn't have changed much, it was in his system, the question was at what levels(trace amounts) and how. The B-sample is the second part of the same sample, that the A-sample was taken from(they split them, to rule out contamination at the lab).

What some never mention, is that he passed a test that none of the shaved headed athletes of today, would go near. Passing the hair follicle test, proved that not only was there no long term use(could not have been using it in high doses either, for the performance enhancing effects) but that he hadn't been using anything else, either. So he debunked the steroids claims from twitter conspirators, along with it. That was how the punishment got reduced, from 12months to 6.
 
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blue wang

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Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
This is true,. Needs to beat GGG again and needs to stop dodging Andrade, he is cherry picking his fights at the moment.

Last test he had was GGG.

Think Charlo in 2 years might be the kink in his armour. Charlo still need to refine his style. Cancelo is a fine tuned machine at the peak of his powers at this moment.
 

Metalartin

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This is true,. Needs to beat GGG again and needs to stop dodging Andrade, he is cherry picking his fights at the moment.

Last test he had was GGG.

Think Charlo in 2 years might be the kink in his armour. Charlo still need to refine his style. Cancelo is a fine tuned machine at the peak of his powers at this moment.
Cherry picking his fights? Callum Smith, BJS and Plant. All very decent fighters, all undefeated champions at the weight above GGG, in the space of 12 months. Meanwhile what has GGG done since they fought? A lot of people thought he was lucky to get the Derevyanchenko decision. Canelo is ducking nobody and nobody at 160 to 168 is doing more than Canelo is right now, he's a real throwback fighter.

Every name people mention he should fight, are all waiting around for their money fight instead of fighting each other(risking nothing). The PBC fighters are notoriously over protected and overhyped, Charlo isn't anywhere near Canelo's level. I like BooBoo but he's not either, he'll make it awkward until Canelo works him out. He knocks them both out and a 3rd fight with GGG wont earn him any credit, they'll say he should fight him and then say he was over the hill when Canelo beats him more easily than the second fight.
 
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blue wang

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Cherry picking his fights? Callum Smith, BJS and Plant. All very decent fighters, all undefeated champions at the weight above GGG, in the space of 12 months. Meanwhile what has GGG done since they fought? A lot of people thought he was lucky to get the Derevyanchenko decision. Canelo is ducking nobody and nobody at 160 to 168 is doing more than Canelo is right now, he's a real throwback fighter. They are all waiting around for their money fight instead of fighting each other.
Callum Smith was less than a match, Saunders was decent, and plant was never going to trouble him.

GGG is past his prime no doubt however there are still question marks there, I think he should put those to rest before GGG is over the hill.

Andrade is the test. Why hasn't this fight happened?
 

Metalartin

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Callum Smith was less than a match, Saunders was decent, and plant was never going to trouble him.

GGG is past his prime no doubt however there are still question marks there, I think he should put those to rest before GGG is over the hill.

Andrade is the test. Why hasn't this fight happened?
Callum Smith was the top guy at 168lbs, he won the WSB tournament at the weight(picking up the Muhammad Ali Trophy), he smashed Groves into retirement. The USA centric boxing viewers don't rate him because they'd never heard of him(especially the PBC fanboys). Everyone else knew he was a very decent boxer, big at the weight(moved up now) and one of the biggest punchers, not an easy touch for anyone.

I see you're not able to give Canelo any credit by dismissing BJS and Plant like that, so lets just agree to disagree on that.

As for why Canelo hasn't fought Andrade, when that fight was first touted, what had he done himself to deserve the Canelo fight ahead of the above everyone else waiting in line? The win has to be worth something to Canelo in terms of legacy and he can't fight everyone at once. More recently, he has been focussed on the small matter of becoming the first undisputed Super Middleweight in boxing history. I'd like to see Andrade get a chance to fight him but he's not front of the queue, it will be interesting to see what Canelo does next.

My point wasn't that he shouldn't take those fights(he probably will), it was no matter what he does next, someone will find fault with it. GGG will be "over the hill", Charlo "not ready", Andrade "never as good as hyped up to be". You watch, that's exactly the narrative that will be pushed if and when Canelo fights and beats those fighters.
 
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mccity

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Surely Saul must go down as one of the greats,absolute legend.
The problem Canelo will have is that a bit like Klitschko he's a great fighter in an era without too many other great fighters.

On top of that, the great fighters he's fought all come with asterisks. Mayweather schooled him. A majority of people had GGG beating him both times (especially at the time of the fights), and an older Kovalev had a very short time to prepare after a disappointing performance against Yarde.


He's still almost certainly the current p4p number 1 though. He's still an exceptional boxer. He's still better than everyone currently active within 10lbs of him at the moment. He'll almost certainly have a fantastic legacy with the casual audiences.


I'm sure I'll be corrected on this point very swiftly, but for me he's a great boxer without being one of THE great boxers.
 

Metalartin

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Mayweather schooled him.
There's an asterisk on that for Mayweather though, the catchweight and the inexperience of Canelo "too soon, not ready" . In fact there are parallels to be drawn with the reluctance to give them credit from boxing fans.
A majority of people had GGG beating him both times.
Not the second fight they didn't, the majority had Canelo winning that. They were two close fights though that's true.
Kovalev had a very short time to prepare after a disappointing performance against Yarde.
Catchweight too
Correction, I misremembered that, the militant Canelo haters were convinced it was going to be but in the end it was at 175lbs. That's why they had to make the most of the excuses Kovalev gave. He fought Yarde on the 24th August, the Canelo fight was announced 13th September 2019, scheduled for 2nd November. That's around 3 weeks rest before the fight was announced and around 7 weeks from that date to the fight, to prepare. The average training camp is 6 weeks, so it wasn't short notice. More than that, fitness shouldn't have been a problem(more about recovery than losing weight), with the quick turnaround for a seasoned fighter, who knows his body. He cited back to back gruelling training camps as his excuse. Whether he just wasn't up to it and took the fight for the money or he overtrained and got his preparation wrong. Who's fault is that? Having just 2 fights 3 months apart, isn't impossible. Even for a 36year old and that would have been a one off also, it used to be the norm.
...but he had all the physical advantages over Canelo. Even with that, Kovalev probably beats anyone moving up from 160lbs as he did by knocking them out most likely. I don't think someone of Canelo's size has any business up at LHW, Box Nation were on about Cruiserweight, I turned it off at that point.
He'll almost certainly have a fantastic legacy with the casual audiences.
I think it's the casuals who tend to not like him personally. They believe anything they're told about him without checking their facts. GGG was defended for ducking Ward who wanted to fight him, Andrade has wanted the GGG fight for a while but he wants none of that either. He's done very little since fighting Canelo. Meanwhile, they think Canelo is ducking everyone and cherrypicking when his resume blows GGG's away and everyone else's in his weight range. GGG's stock has fallen recently but he had the biggest casual following off the back of the middleweight Mike Tyson moniker.
 
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