The Conservative Party/Government

NPBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Jun 2008
Messages
3,636
Fair points. I’d not pay a blind bit of attention to what Johnson and co give as their reasons for not doing so, I’d also not be surprised to see them u-turn on this either as they seem to lack the words of their convictions. Or maybe just lack any convictions… oh wait nope they got a few convictions recently
The reason they're not doing it is because, according to a No 10 spokesman, It's against tory principles.

They're happy to have millions of people choosing between eating and heating, many contributing to the excess profits of the energy companies as they struggle to afford the costs of going to work, but that's our government for you.

Huingry and cold people are less meaningful than big fat bonuses and dividends.
 

Vic

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 Jan 2009
Messages
16,997
Nor are Italy and Spain renowned for their oil/gas production. Is there a major producing nation that has introduced a windfall tax.l?

The energy crisis hit long before Russia invade Ukraine they were a result of exiting lockdowns - particularly in Asia. In 2020 oil was actually trading at a negative price - unbelievably they would pay you to take the oil. Shell (as an example) lost $21bn in 2020, BP lost a touch over $20bn. In fact I’d suspect if you averaged out profits 2020-2022 they’ll not be far off 2016-2019. So they aren’t really making excess profits in that sense - although this is an exceptional start to the year and we have a long way to go yet. For reference the oil “war premium” is priced in around $20 a barrel.

Your wider question to what makes excess profits ok for one different to excess profits for another. It’s a fair question. It boils down to a question of fairness, shell/bp/total have been in the oil/gas game for years - through the highs and lows - for PPE we had companies making millions who had never touched PPE previously. They were opportunists, and can have little complaint being hit with an opportunist tax - which is exactly what a windfall tax is. Tax should always have a sense of fairness at its core, although that’s not always the case (eg tax on tampons).

If a fair case can be made to tax these companies more then I’m all ears. But just saying well they’ve earned a tonne of cash in Q1 2022 and we want a part isn’t really a fair case. It may be a worthy cause but there are many worthy causes out there - and these companies are free to make huge donations and create a hardship fund or whatever they want to call it should they so wish (which I would do if I was CEO of one of these btw)
They could reduce the profit margin on the energy they sell. It's not costing them any more to produce it.
 

jaseirai

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 Oct 2019
Messages
478
Nor are Italy and Spain renowned for their oil/gas production. Is there a major producing nation that has introduced a windfall tax.l?

The energy crisis hit long before Russia invade Ukraine they were a result of exiting lockdowns - particularly in Asia. In 2020 oil was actually trading at a negative price - unbelievably they would pay you to take the oil. Shell (as an example) lost $21bn in 2020, BP lost a touch over $20bn. In fact I’d suspect if you averaged out profits 2020-2022 they’ll not be far off 2016-2019. So they aren’t really making excess profits in that sense - although this is an exceptional start to the year and we have a long way to go yet. For reference the oil “war premium” is priced in around $20 a barrel.

Your wider question to what makes excess profits ok for one different to excess profits for another. It’s a fair question. It boils down to a question of fairness, shell/bp/total have been in the oil/gas game for years - through the highs and lows - for PPE we had companies making millions who had never touched PPE previously. They were opportunists, and can have little complaint being hit with an opportunist tax - which is exactly what a windfall tax is. Tax should always have a sense of fairness at its core, although that’s not always the case (eg tax on tampons).

If a fair case can be made to tax these companies more then I’m all ears. But just saying well they’ve earned a tonne of cash in Q1 2022 and we want a part isn’t really a fair case. It may be a worthy cause but there are many worthy causes out there - and these companies are free to make huge donations and create a hardship fund or whatever they want to call it should they so wish (which I would do if I was CEO of one of these btw)

With those losses in 2020 adding to Shell and BPs highly leveraged balance sheets, I wonder why they didn’t campaign for windfall tax credits…
 

arbabarshad

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 Jan 2011
Messages
555
Rather, it's remarkable how inherently honest people can vote for this corrupt government.
People get the government they deserve. Majority of people might be honest but there are a lot of corrupt people about happy enough to vote for corrupt people for personal gain.
 

East Level 2

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 Jul 2013
Messages
9,007
Location
Manchester
Rather, it's remarkable how inherently honest people can vote for this corrupt government.
Inherently honest people may vote for this corrupt government if they are not suffering personally. It's more remarkable that some voters who are suffering from Tory policies will continue to vote for them.
 

Magicpole

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 Sep 2016
Messages
15,978
Location
Scotland
Team supported
Celtic
I have been saying it forever, the Tories are an incompetent shower of heartless, crooked bastards. And anyone who isn’t from their class and votes for them is a fucking nugget.

On that note Tory voters. I have a selection of Five Magic Beans offers you simply must have

if you think the Tories give a single fuck about you, believing these Five Magic Beans will make you rich is a piece of piss.

Working Class Tories, you canny whack their stupidity.
Brexit, fucking disaster and it’s just begun. Covid utter fucking shambles. Corruption, in a league of their own. Lying bastards, different level. We are where many of us predicted. Wake the fuck up please.
 

Fred_Quimby

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 Feb 2017
Messages
6,326
Location
Boston
Inherently honest people may vote for this corrupt government if they are not suffering personally. It's more remarkable that some voters who are suffering from Tory policies will continue to vote for them.
I rather think that some people are voting for them in the same way some people follow football teams; they want to be on the side that's winning. They want to say I voted Tory because Labour never win. They don't have a clue about the consequences of their actions because they know nothing about politics or how it works.
 

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