The Conservative Party

Ban-jani said:
The government wouldn’t have to do anything if the radical left didn’t start attacking every little thing about the country and calling everyone racist.

The public are sick of them and the government will just do what the public want, as the Tories always do to maintain power.
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When your statements, virtually word for word, could have been lifted directly from the nuttier end of Trump supporters in the US, it should give you pause for thought.

The 'radical left' bogeyman here is the same as in the US - an irrelevant, powerless, bunch of cranks that are not organised and have as much chance of influencing anything consequential as Handforth Dean Parish Council does. I.e. no chance.

But it does suit some groups to portray some sort of radical left influence as dictating everything in society and being an existential threat (despite it never being further away from power - quite an achievement when it has never been anywhere near having power in the first place.

The groups it suits to portray this make believe threat are:

- those who see mainstream political capital in stoking a 'culture war' rhetoric (Republicans and, increasing, this government)

- those who are too uninformed to take a step back and really consider whether the UK is at all influenced by the extreme left (as the answer would be, and always has been, no) and swallow all the bullshit they are told by the tabloid media.
 
jma said:
When your statements, virtually word for word, could have been lifted directly from the nuttier end of Trump supporters in the US, it should give you pause for thought.

The 'radical left' bogeyman here is the same as in the US - an irrelevant, powerless, bunch of cranks that are not organised and have as much chance of influencing anything consequential as Handforth Dean Parish Council does. I.e. no chance.

But it does suit some groups to portray some sort of radical left influence as dictating everything in society and being an existential threat (despite it never being further away from power - quite an achievement when it has never been anywhere near having power in the first place.

The groups it suits to portray this make believe threat are:

- those who see mainstream political capital in stoking a 'culture war' rhetoric (Republicans and, increasing, this government)

- those who are too uninformed to take a step back and really consider whether the UK is at all influenced by the extreme left (as the answer would be, and always has been, no) and swallow all the bullshit they are told by the tabloid media.
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You can say what I said is akin to Trump but that doesn’t make it so. I have little or no interest in US politics, apart from the latest coup and circus around it and I don’t pay attention usually.

I am British and couldn’t really care less, so either take on what I say without false accusations and hysteria, relating to America, or you won’t get a sensible response.

It is within the interest to play down the radical left, we have seen it on this forum many times. ‘Antifa don’t exist’, ‘BLM don’t think this or do that’, ‘why do you care if this gets cancelled’.

It is the same old tired tactic used time and time again whenever we see it.

In reality there is a serious issue within our universities and my sister is at one doing her masters, so I hear what goes on. We have transgender stuff pushed on to infants now and it’s creeping into primary schools (shock horror it’s in Brighton and yes I do have a link if you want one). We had the whole BLM marches in the middle of a pandemic last year for something that happened 3000 miles away, that movement very likely cost lives to Covid here as a result. Everything is sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic. Britain is portrayed as being no better than 1970s South Africa and we need to overthrow the patriarchy. The government, police, NHS are all guilty.

Yes I am giving you the extreme examples but the above rhetoric is becoming more and more popular.

The extreme left doesn’t control the country, I never said it did, nor did I say it’s the majority. It is however becoming more and more significant and trying to increase its presence, which seems to have coincided with election after election of the left being destroyed, meaning they now are trying to influence the country by other means.

It’s not all coordinated, there’s no criminal mastermind behind it, it’s just an ever more prevalent part of culture that is rearing it’s ugly head and the imbeciles that think the aforementioned ideas, copy one another.

The public, in the main, have had enough of the identity politics shite and the government is now doing what they always do to cling on to power, they’re listening and doing what the public wants, it’s Tory 101.
 
jma said:
When your statements, virtually word for word, could have been lifted directly from the nuttier end of Trump supporters in the US, it should give you pause for thought.

The 'radical left' bogeyman here is the same as in the US - an irrelevant, powerless, bunch of cranks that are not organised and have as much chance of influencing anything consequential as Handforth Dean Parish Council does. I.e. no chance.

But it does suit some groups to portray some sort of radical left influence as dictating everything in society and being an existential threat (despite it never being further away from power - quite an achievement when it has never been anywhere near having power in the first place.

The groups it suits to portray this make believe threat are:

- those who see mainstream political capital in stoking a 'culture war' rhetoric (Republicans and, increasing, this government)

- those who are too uninformed to take a step back and really consider whether the UK is at all influenced by the extreme left (as the answer would be, and always has been, no) and swallow all the bullshit they are told by the tabloid media.
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It is worrying how similarly it’s being played out and how wide the crossfire becomes from it. The narrative increasingly being pushed as a binary one doesn’t help either. We’re regressing at an alarming rate in terms of both political and intellectual discourse.

The US have at least pulled back from it and have a chance to reset their political debate over the next few years, however much the republicans try to stop it. We’re depressingly only really at the beginning, have a government that has a legitimacy that Trump never really did and a press that is significantly more supportive of it.
 
Ban-jani said:
You can say what I said is akin to Trump but that doesn’t make it so. I have little or no interest in US politics, apart from the latest coup and circus around it and I don’t pay attention usually.

I am British and couldn’t really care less, so either take on what I say without false accusations and hysteria, relating to America, or you won’t get a sensible response.

It is within the interest to play down the radical left, we have seen it on this forum many times. ‘Antifa don’t exist’, ‘BLM don’t think this or do that’, ‘why do you care if this gets cancelled’.

It is the same old tired tactic used time and time again whenever we see it.

In reality there is a serious issue within our universities and my sister is at one doing her masters, so I hear what goes on. We have transgender stuff pushed on to infants now and it’s creeping into primary schools (shock horror it’s in Brighton and yes I do have a link if you want one). We had the whole BLM marches in the middle of a pandemic last year for something that happened 3000 miles away, that movement very likely cost lives to Covid here as a result. Everything is sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic. Britain is portrayed as being no better than 1970s South Africa and we need to overthrow the patriarchy. The government, police, NHS are all guilty.

Yes I am giving you the extreme examples but the above rhetoric is becoming more and more popular.

The extreme left doesn’t control the country, I never said it did, nor did I say it’s the majority. It is however becoming more and more significant and trying to increase its presence, which seems to have coincided with election after election of the left being destroyed, meaning they now are trying to influence the country by other means.

It’s not all coordinated, there’s no criminal mastermind behind it, it’s just an ever more prevalent part of culture that is rearing it’s ugly head and the imbeciles that think the aforementioned ideas, copy one another.

The public, in the main, have had enough of the identity politics shite and the government is now doing what they always do to cling on to power, they’re listening and doing what the public wants, it’s Tory 101.
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Are you sure defending a Govt insisting on legislating what can be taught as ‘official history‘, rather like the old Soviet Union used to do, is the hill you want to die on?
 
Ban-jani said:
You can say what I said is akin to Trump but that doesn’t make it so. I have little or no interest in US politics, apart from the latest coup and circus around it and I don’t pay attention usually.

I am British and couldn’t really care less, so either take on what I say without false accusations and hysteria, relating to America, or you won’t get a sensible response.

It is within the interest to play down the radical left, we have seen it on this forum many times. ‘Antifa don’t exist’, ‘BLM don’t think this or do that’, ‘why do you care if this gets cancelled’.

It is the same old tired tactic used time and time again whenever we see it.

In reality there is a serious issue within our universities and my sister is at one doing her masters, so I hear what goes on. We have transgender stuff pushed on to infants now and it’s creeping into primary schools (shock horror it’s in Brighton and yes I do have a link if you want one). We had the whole BLM marches in the middle of a pandemic last year for something that happened 3000 miles away, that movement very likely cost lives to Covid here as a result. Everything is sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic. Britain is portrayed as being no better than 1970s South Africa and we need to overthrow the patriarchy. The government, police, NHS are all guilty.

Yes I am giving you the extreme examples but the above rhetoric is becoming more and more popular.

The extreme left doesn’t control the country, I never said it did, nor did I say it’s the majority. It is however becoming more and more significant and trying to increase its presence, which seems to have coincided with election after election of the left being destroyed, meaning they now are trying to influence the country by other means.

It’s not all coordinated, there’s no criminal mastermind behind it, it’s just an ever more prevalent part of culture that is rearing it’s ugly head and the imbeciles that think the aforementioned ideas, copy one another.

The public, in the main, have had enough of the identity politics shite and the government is now doing what they always do to cling on to power, they’re listening and doing what the public wants, it’s Tory 101.
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Maybe your continued use of the "radical left" term makes people think you've spent too much time reading and listening to populist bullshit.
 
BobKowalski said:
Are you sure defending a Govt insisting on legislating what can be taught as ‘official history‘, rather like the old Soviet Union used to do, is the hill you want to die on?
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If that’s what you think you are doing you’re already dead and lying on the hill dear Bob.

What they are doing is fining universities who restrict speakers from one side of the political divide/argument or universities that lecture from a biased position.

The people legislating what can be taught is those that work at universities now, those are the people exhibiting soviet tactics, not the government who is trying to keep free speech open.

My sister said to me the only time she hears conservative perspectives is when she sees me, she’s a Labour voter and admits who entire university is geared towards leftist thinking.
 
west didsblue said:
Maybe your continued use of the "radical left" term makes people think you've spent too much time reading and listening to populist bullshit.
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How’s that any different than you using the word “populist”?

Of course those who are left leaning on this forum are going to use smears to attack my position, it’s what they always do.

I am going to carry on posting what I think and feel regardless of whether you or anyone else wants to call it something it isn’t.
 
Ban-jani said:
How’s that any different than you using the word “populist”?

Of course those who are left leaning on this forum are going to use smears to attack my position, it’s what they always do.

I am going to carry on posting what I think and feel regardless of whether you or anyone else wants to call it something it isn’t.
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Try googling the term "radical left" and see what comes up. That might explain why people compare what you say to what has come out of the US for the last four years.

The word "populist" also provides similar hits but are more related to people commenting on the people who use the term "radical left".

Spoiler - Trump appears a lot.
 
west didsblue said:
Try googling the term "radical left" and see what comes up. That might explain why people compare what you say to what has come out of the US for the last four years.

The word "populist" also provides similar hits but are more related to people commenting on the people who use the term "radical left".

Spoiler - Trump appears a lot.
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So because I’ve described those on the fringe left in the UK, who are pushing for significant change, as radical (not forgetting it’s a term the left use for themselves too), that means I am somehow attached to US politics and Trump, because he also used it a couple of times?

Newsflash, a lot of commentators from the centre to the far right have used this term recently. I did Google it, it did bring up some US stuff but there was also a Guardian article from 2019, on the first page of Google, positively labelling this movement as radical and asking how they push their movement into the mainstream.

Choosing to critique my use of phrase to describe these new radicals on the left, and not what they are actually pushing, makes me think you appreciate some of what I am saying as having some merit in it?

I personally think the ideas pushed forward by two wings of British progressivism recently – liberal centrism and Corbynite leftism - are becoming more and more radical, mainly in feminism, in the name of anti racism and in gender study stuff. The latter being the most radical and quite frankly, laughable, of the lot.
 
Ban-jani said:
The better term to use is cuts and whilst I am no fan of Osbourne and Cameron, nor how harsh austerity was, you’ll need to provide clear evidence it specifically led to the deaths of 150,000.

And well, that’s obvious, there was a global financial crash that affected everyone. The public voted in, not once, but twice, a party that stood on a manifesto that stated they would do these cuts.

As much as I dislike David Cameron, at least I can acknowledge it was the public’s decision. You lot seem to think he staged a coup and got in that way to force austerity on everyone.
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For clear evidence of the 150,000 deaths you'd just need to read the United Nations Rapporteurs report .....
 
Universities and their students in widespread left of centre political outlook shocker.

Quick, act horrified and kick around a point scoring political football so that we can return to the nineties, er, no, er, eighties, er, no, er, seventies, er, no, sixties, er, no, ...... hang on, when was this golden age of university campus' and students not being generally skewed towards what would be considered left of centre?

(That's not to say that there aren't examples of stupidity or shouting down of views that have been incorrect/wrong, in my view. But if you think that there was a golden age where students wouldn't shout down people from certain parts of the political spectrum, you are uninformed. Some of the students doing the shouting down often go on to become relatively right wing politicians, so I wouldn't worry too much that it's heralding a queer, communist, godless revolution - unless you are swallowing the culture war koolaid)
 
jma said:
Universities and their students in widespread left of centre political outlook shocker.

Quick, act horrified and kick around a point scoring political football so that we can return to the nineties, er, no, er, eighties, er, no, er, seventies, er, no, sixties, er, no, ...... hang on, when was this golden age of university campus' and students not being generally skewed towards what would be considered left of centre?

(That's not to say that there aren't examples of stupidity or shouting down of views that have been incorrect/wrong, in my view. But if you think that there was a golden age where students wouldn't shout down people from certain parts of the political spectrum, you are uninformed. Some of the students doing the shouting down often go on to become relatively right wing politicians, so I wouldn't worry too much that it's heralding a queer, communist, godless revolution - unless you are swallowing the culture war koolaid)
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I imagine the vast majority of students wouldn’t even be interested anyway
 
jma said:
Universities and their students in widespread left of centre political outlook shocker.

Quick, act horrified and kick around a point scoring political football so that we can return to the nineties, er, no, er, eighties, er, no, er, seventies, er, no, sixties, er, no, ...... hang on, when was this golden age of university campus' and students not being generally skewed towards what would be considered left of centre?

(That's not to say that there aren't examples of stupidity or shouting down of views that have been incorrect/wrong, in my view. But if you think that there was a golden age where students wouldn't shout down people from certain parts of the political spectrum, you are uninformed. Some of the students doing the shouting down often go on to become relatively right wing politicians, so I wouldn't worry too much that it's heralding a queer, communist, godless revolution - unless you are swallowing the culture war koolaid)
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Put the drink down man.
 
Ban-jani said:
Yeah I’ve checked but no article I can find states 150,000 deaths, you got a link?

It’s worth noting I am on record of being anti austerity.
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It was a bmj article that suggested it after comparing the rise in death rates. I don’t think it argued it was solely down to austerity though, just that it was a big factor in it. Going back a few years though.
 
meltonblue said:
It was a bmj article that suggested it after comparing the rise in death rates. I don’t think it argued it was solely down to austerity though, just that it was a big factor in it. Going back a few years though.
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I did think this would be the case. One of those things where it has obviously cost lives, most economic decisions that are significant do, but those stating 150k are using the deaths to point score.
 
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