When i sit and watch a city game and there is a tight decision, penalty or offside, i will always see it with blue tinted glasses. These var stockley park officials are no different and there will always be a bias in their decision. It is no surprise in the part that they have played in the title race and now the top 4
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The death of VAR
- Thread starter johnmcfcagain
- Start date
Mentioned this ages ago.The view on what is a 'clear and obvious error' is subjective and therefor open to corruption.
Also, there is still a substantial margin of error (in the region of 5-10cm) in offside decisions where the frame at which the ball 'appears' to leave the foot can be chosen to indicate a decision either way, i.e the earliest frame for onside and the latest frame for offside. I'm willing to bet the decision in the Rag's game last night used the latest frame possible.
VAR is bent!
As they are using a relatively slow frames per second the difference between frames can be up to 40cm when someone like Stirling is running at full pelt.
Fred_Quimby
Well-Known Member
I wonder why they don’t take a leaf out of RU book? Ref not sure asks VAR and they have a conversation about the incident all miked up and everyone sees and hears what is going on. There again we have OMR in charge and it would just show how incompetent his official’s are.
We would be better off just letting the RU Ref's do football as well.I wonder why they don’t take a leaf out of RU book? Ref not sure asks VAR and they have a conversation about the incident all miked up and everyone sees and hears what is going on. There again we have OMR in charge and it would just show how incompetent his official’s are.
Citizen in Pakistan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Aug 2012
- Messages
- 3,885
Had hopes from VAR but its a disaster. I would rather accept a crooked ref once in a while than a man determining the outcome of the game even with all the available evidence.
This sort of cheating is more hard to accept than a bad on field call once in a while.
This sort of cheating is more hard to accept than a bad on field call once in a while.
MCFC Fort Worth
Well-Known Member
There's ways to fix VAR.
First, being back retired referees who don't care about the current referees' feelings.
Second, get rid of the offside lines. Indisputable visual evidence only, the lines are not indisputable.
Third, pitch side monitors
Fourth, transparency. Allow the public to hear the VAR conversation, also mic the referee and make him announce the decision in the ground so people know wtf is going on.
First, being back retired referees who don't care about the current referees' feelings.
Second, get rid of the offside lines. Indisputable visual evidence only, the lines are not indisputable.
Third, pitch side monitors
Fourth, transparency. Allow the public to hear the VAR conversation, also mic the referee and make him announce the decision in the ground so people know wtf is going on.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
So FIFA running VAR next season how does that change things in reality ? Does it mean the same gang running it with a FIFA official overseeing it all ? Or a complete FIFA team running it? Apart from that one statement saying about FIFA, I have seen no other mention officially of it .
It means that the onfield ref will be directed to the pitchside screen for penalties/handball. If he doesn't go to the screen, VAR has not suggested it. The VAR ref will only be making decisions on offside/line decisions.
Basically, they will have to use the full VAR protocol, not Riley's pick-and-choose approach. It wouldn't surprise me if Riley retires.
i suppose there are some pretty easy holes to pick in VAR;
benefit of the doubt to decisions called or not called: 2 incidents both involving United: Fernandes gets ridiculous pen but VAR decides it's not clear and obvious to overturn decision to give, Zaha does not get pen against Utd and VAR decides not clear and obvious to overturn decision not to give. A clear pair of examples where abuse of the system is entirely possible and, frankly, probable by the ref simply calling or not calling for a particular team on any grey area and above. Previously they had to think and be accounted, now they can call/not call grey areas and pass it up to Stockley Park and the shady processes on high.
Offside. Seemingly the bastion of objectivity - you are off or you are not. As much as i fucking hate footy decisions going on 1mm offsides, the principle of this is sound - you are off or you are not. And those blatant 2 yarders should be a thing of the past. Trouble is you simply cannot back up the principle in practice. We are seeing low frame rate footage to decide when the ball is played, coupled with mm decisions - surely the error margins are too high for this? perhaps they have better footage on high. i doubt it. So for Sterling's goal some time ago, we see 3 frames where the ball is apparently 'played' and Sterling is onside (in the mm world) for 2 of them and offside in the last. The last shot is used and he is off by 5mm or something. Even tennis Hawkeye at 1000fps shows a tennis ball moving many cms along the ground and so can be out and in with the same footage. They have very low error margins but they have them.
anyway, we used to argue about stuff and now we are told those arguments are over. They're just controlling the narrative, that's all.
benefit of the doubt to decisions called or not called: 2 incidents both involving United: Fernandes gets ridiculous pen but VAR decides it's not clear and obvious to overturn decision to give, Zaha does not get pen against Utd and VAR decides not clear and obvious to overturn decision not to give. A clear pair of examples where abuse of the system is entirely possible and, frankly, probable by the ref simply calling or not calling for a particular team on any grey area and above. Previously they had to think and be accounted, now they can call/not call grey areas and pass it up to Stockley Park and the shady processes on high.
Offside. Seemingly the bastion of objectivity - you are off or you are not. As much as i fucking hate footy decisions going on 1mm offsides, the principle of this is sound - you are off or you are not. And those blatant 2 yarders should be a thing of the past. Trouble is you simply cannot back up the principle in practice. We are seeing low frame rate footage to decide when the ball is played, coupled with mm decisions - surely the error margins are too high for this? perhaps they have better footage on high. i doubt it. So for Sterling's goal some time ago, we see 3 frames where the ball is apparently 'played' and Sterling is onside (in the mm world) for 2 of them and offside in the last. The last shot is used and he is off by 5mm or something. Even tennis Hawkeye at 1000fps shows a tennis ball moving many cms along the ground and so can be out and in with the same footage. They have very low error margins but they have them.
anyway, we used to argue about stuff and now we are told those arguments are over. They're just controlling the narrative, that's all.
My 2 penneth, and I'm yet to find anyone who cannot see the positives, is to scrap offside and do away with penalties in gameplay.
All fouls result in a direct free kick from wherever it occurs. Fouls or handballs that stop the ball entering the goal, like Suarez in World Cup v Ghana, result in a penalty goal.
There would be almost no use for VAR and little chance to cheat, there woild be less stoppages for offside, the ball would be in play longer, less diving to win penalties and just a better spectacle.
Remember offside was introduced to stop forwards literally goal hanging and no other reason. Play a season without offside or in game penalties and let's see where it takes us.
All fouls result in a direct free kick from wherever it occurs. Fouls or handballs that stop the ball entering the goal, like Suarez in World Cup v Ghana, result in a penalty goal.
There would be almost no use for VAR and little chance to cheat, there woild be less stoppages for offside, the ball would be in play longer, less diving to win penalties and just a better spectacle.
Remember offside was introduced to stop forwards literally goal hanging and no other reason. Play a season without offside or in game penalties and let's see where it takes us.
JRockBlues
Well-Known Member
Easiest way to correct these really tight offside calls. Use 2 consective still frames and player has to be offside in both to have the decision given for the defending team. If player is onside in either (won't need 2nd if he's onside in the 1st) then no offside call made. Goes back to giving the advantage to the attacker again.