The exposures Balotelli gives us.

[The Fat el Hombre]

Good post danburge82 but personally I think it's absolutely criminal to say that the only strength to Balotelli's game is shooting and that's putting it very nicely

And no shame in not being as good as tranny and Messi were at his age, none at all. Compare him to other current strikers his age and you'll struggle to find any better

 

[Mancio]

Good post danburge82 but personally I think it's absolutely criminal to say that the only strength to Balotelli's game is shooting and that's putting it very nicely

And no shame in not being as good as tranny and Messi were at his age, none at all. Compare him to other current strikers his age and you'll struggle to find any better

this.

and .... wasn't this thread about "exposure" ?

 

[Anonymous]

Good post danburge82 but personally I think it's absolutely criminal to say that the only strength to Balotelli's game is shooting and that's putting it very nicely

And no shame in not being as good as tranny and Messi were at his age, none at all. Compare him to other current strikers his age and you'll struggle to find any better

I think the next two or three seasons will give us a really good indication of how far Mario can go. Looking across Europe at the top strikers around, the overwhelmingly vast majority began to show a goal scoring consistency between the ages of 22-25. They also showed dramatic improvements between those ages.

The tough part for Mario is that the competition at City is much stiffer than most players of his quality face at a similar age. Players like Torres, Aguero - even Falcao and Cavani, have had the benefit of being number 1 choice for a club between those ages which no doubt helps speed up development.

 

[Skashion]

I don't really see that as mitigation of anything. Mario's achievements before he arrived at City have often been trumpeted. How many other players have won the CL, and two Scudetto's at that age is an oft repeated quote. Ronaldo moved to the rags at 17 from the Portugese league, where he'd only played one season.

You don't think knowing your team-mates is important in developing an understanding that leads to more goals?

Last season Mario played in a strike partnership with another player 95% of the times he started so your point about him being played from the left "often" is wholly inaccurate. You may have been thinking about the season before. The formation last season may have differed substantially from United's in Ronaldo's first 42 goal season, but again, he was playing alongside Aguero (or Dzeko) and being fed by David Silva and Samir Nasri. Both players who for my money are just as effective a supply line as Tevez and Rooney were at United, if not better. I take your point that he wasn't main striker, but that's because he wasn't as good as Aguero in the eyes of the manager.

Do you know of any stats sites that have territory data? That's just about the only way we could settle this. Their formation of Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, whilst still fluid, wasn't half as fluid as ours. Ronaldo was effectively goalscorer in chief, Rooney and Tevez were subordinate to Ronaldo who scored 1 in 1.16 that season as the head of the triangle, compared to 1 in 2.39 for Rooney and 1 in 2.52 for Tevez. There's a massive gap. Both players, coincidentally, when not subordinated to Ronaldo, became huge scorers when the teams were built around them. This is why, when loads of City fans got giddy when Ronaldo left and I tried to make the argument that Rooney would step up, and then Berbatov would step up, and unless he gets injured this season, Van Persie will step up. It's hardly rocket science. Anyway, I digress, the spread of our goals was far lower, 1 in 1.6 for Aguero, 1 in 1.88 for Balotelli, 1 in 2.2 for Dzeko. 0.6 between highest and lowest. 1.4 near enough for them. Our team, was far more balanced and more interchangeable, it's clear as day.

Mario was the main penalty taker when he was on the field last season. He took more than his fair share of freekicks also. You say he's capable of hitting 42 in "two more seasons" - why? Or let me rephrase, why not now? Physically he has all the attributes, technically he also has all the attributes, he plays in arguably one of the best squads in the world with some of the most creative players on earth. What will change in two more season that will make his goal scoring prowess explode and double from what it currently is.

So was Ronaldo, that's why I didn't mention it. As I recall, he also got to take more penalties than Balotelli did, so it's certainly not an argument in his favour. I'd happily take this to a stats site if you know one with those kinds of stats on because I'm absolutely certain Ronaldo will have taken a far higher percentage of the free-kicks than Balotelli did.

Don't understand this comment either. It was his record season at United, he has more than matched that since at Madrid though. This will be Mario's third season in England, his third with his teammates, and it is a time when you would expect a world class forward to begin to show all his strengths. If you look at the improvement purely from a goal scoring perspective, last season's 17 goals for Mario was nearly double what his previous best. I'd say that was a direct result of his improvement as a player, and the quality of the players around him. So if he can make that leap once, I don't see why he can't make it again. Sure it's "on-demand" but he did it last season in terms of improvement.

The quality of the Spanish league lower down, is nowhere near as high as it is in the English league. You cannot compare the amount of goals scored in La Liga to the Premier League. It's self-evident, look at the spread of the TV money in La Liga, the gap in revenues and so quality is far higher. It's why the Premier League is so popular. Any team can beat any on its day, and that's the drama people tune in to see. Barcelona and Real Madrid in most seasons can spank most La Liga sides without getting out of second gear. I also said Ronaldo had kicked on from where he was when he left at the rags and that Balotelli might never get there.

I think it's safe to say we'll never subordinate everyone else to ANY player to anything like the same extent that the rags did with Ronaldo. Mancini's not building that kind of side, and that's perfectly fine.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Good post danburge82 but personally I think it's absolutely criminal to say that the only strength to Balotelli's game is shooting and that's putting it very nicely

And no shame in not being as good as tranny and Messi were at his age, none at all. Compare him to other current strikers his age and you'll struggle to find any better

I think the next two or three seasons will give us a really good indication of how far Mario can go. Looking across Europe at the top strikers around, the overwhelmingly vast majority began to show a goal scoring consistency between the ages of 22-25. They also showed dramatic improvements between those ages.

The tough part for Mario is that the competition at City is much stiffer than most players of his quality face at a similar age. Players like Torres, Aguero - even Falcao and Cavani, have had the benefit of being number 1 choice for a club between those ages which no doubt helps speed up development.

I think it works both ways - we can take him out of the firing line if need be and it should surely help working with world class players like Tevez and Aguero every day, plus we've got enough games for Mario to get plenty game time and Mancini backs him all the way.

Have you got any examples of other strikers coming of age at around this age range? I agree that the next couple of seasons we'll know a lot more about how far Mario can go. I thought that next season, at 23, would be the one where Mario really starts to kick on but after the summer he had at the Euro's I'ms till hopeful t might be this one

 

[CityCTID]

Every time Balotelli is in one of our City tv videos the hits sky rocket.

For good or bad, Mario is city´s walking billboard and we could not have had the global exposures had it not been for him.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuYVyxUzoMM&feature=related[/youtube]

At this moment kids talk as much about Balotelli as Messi and Ronaldo, and i am not even kidding.

The only place anything is important is on the pitch. Has he ever played two games in a row to a high standard for us?

At 22 CRonaldo scored 42 goals in England and Messi scored 47 goals in Spain. Will Mario get those sort of levels this season now he's 22?

For me Mario is like the Dennis Rodman of football. Rodman was a joke figure. His hairstyles would get as much attention as Michael Jordan scoring 65 points three times in one month. Rodman's 9 day marriage to Carman Elektra got more attention than MJ playing and scoring 40+ points with flu.

But to people who knew basketball Rodman was just someone who was good at one thing in the game (rebounding) and could be a complete liability the rest of the time with his disciplinary record on the court. Proper Basketball people didn't take a lot of the rest of his game seriously because he was severely lacking; yet he grabbed lots of headlines and would be talked of alongside MJ.
I look at Mario and see he's good at one thing (shooting) and can be a complete liability the rest of the time with his temperament on the pitch. Proper football people see through the hype and don't particularly take the rest of Mario's game seriously because a lot of his game is severely lacking; yet he grabs as many headlines and is talked of alongside CRonaldo and Messi.

The day Mario talked of alongside even players way below CRonaldo and Messi, like our own Sergio Agüero for example, in terms of actual football ability is the day I get excited about having Mario at City.

-- Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:17 pm --

It appears that if you don't rate Mario as highly as some, you hate him?

Ridiculous isn't it?

Ronaldo had been at the rags for FOUR whole seasons before his 42 goal season (his fifth season). Mario's been here for two, this being his third. In his 42 goal season, he was essentially at the top of a triangle composed of Rooney and Tevez feeding him. He was the main set-piece taker as well. This differs substantially from Mario's position, who not only is often not the main striker, with two in support (which never happens), he's often played wide left, where you're not going to get as many goals overall. If you put Mario in front of Tevez and Aguero and let him be main set-piece taker as well, I think he's certainly capable of hitting 42, especially with two more seasons getting to know his teammates like Ronaldo had. However, that was his record season, what you're asking us is to predict a miracle season for Mario on-demand effectively. Well no, because the odds are it won't be. Ronaldo did it one season out of six, or one out of three as the main striker - in unique circumstances unlikely to occur at City. It is more realistic to compare Balotelli to Ronaldo's 06-07 and 08-09 season, 23 and 26 goals in 53 games, or 49 goals in 106 games, or 1 in 2.16 (at age 24 and a half, six seasons at same club) compared to Mario's 1 in 2.29 (age 22, two seasons at same club). Those are what you might refer to as their standard fare. Ronaldo's moved onto new heights certainly. Mario might never reach them but even 80% of the way there and he's still an amazing player well worth what we paid.

As for serious footballing people not taking him seriously, from Jose Mourinho saying he's be one of the world's best on 50% effort to Yaya Toure saying Balotelli is the one City player he'd pick to play alongside him, to the Tuttosport award, previous winners including Messi and Aguero, yeah, serious footballing people take him very seriously. No amount of self-delusion and you thinking you know better than some of the world's best managers, players and football journalists, will take away that fact.

Excellent response.



The usual suspect getting eggs on their faces again.... BWAHAHA

 

[reedy]

I just hope he shows more desire and maturity. At the moment i cant see Balotelli or Dzeko busting a gut to claim the 3rd strikers spot.

 

[Anonymous]

You don't think knowing your team-mates is important in developing an understanding that leads to more goals?

Well, yes and no. I do think that team cohesion improves the longer a team plays together, but I certainly don't think that this means you cannot compare a 22 year old Ronaldo and Balo's records. I think were we discussing this last summer I'd have agreed with you, but we saw last season that we were an incredibly cohesive attacking team for the most part, in which Mario scored a personal best in terms of goals scored. Can this improve? Yes. Do I think a significant part of the improvement will be because he will be playing in his third season and therefore knows his teammates better. Not really.

Do you know of any stats sites that have territory data? That's just about the only way we could settle this. Their formation of Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, whilst still fluid, wasn't half as fluid as ours. Ronaldo was effectively goalscorer in chief, Rooney and Tevez were subordinate to Ronaldo who scored 1 in 1.16 that season as the head of the triangle, compared to 1 in 2.39 for Rooney and 1 in 2.52 for Tevez. There's a massive gap. Both players, coincidentally, when not subordinated to Ronaldo, became huge scorers when the teams were built around them. This is why, when loads of City fans got giddy when Ronaldo left and I tried to make the argument that Rooney would step up, and then Berbatov would step up, and unless he gets injured this season, Van Persie will step up. It's hardly rocket science. Anyway, I digress, the spread of our goals was far lower, 1 in 1.6 for Aguero, 1 in 1.88 for Balotelli, 1 in 2.2 for Dzeko. 0.6 between highest and lowest. 1.4 near enough for them. Our team, was far more balanced and more interchangeable, it's clear as day.

Although those stats are no doubt accurate (goals/minutes) I'm not sure I agree with much of your analysis. Regarding the fluidity of United's system back then, to my eyes it was just as fluid as ours, with Ronaldo the tip of a three man strike force in much the same way that Aguero was the tip of most of our attacking play last season. Technically you could argue that we played with four players making attacking runs off the opposition centre halves, whereas United at the time only had 3, but that doesn't change how fluid those attacking players were.

I'm not sure that anything is as clear as day, and certainly not that our team is somehow more balanced and more interchangeable. The difference as I say is one player, as per United's attacking three versus our attacking four. However whether it's Rooney, Ronaldo, Aguero, or Balo, the systems are built with fluidity in mind which is why so many of Ronaldo's goals were scored cutting in from the left even though he was nominally the spearhead of the attack.

So was Ronaldo, that's why I didn't mention it. As I recall, he also got to take more penalties than Balotelli did, so it's certainly not an argument in his favour. I'd happily take this to a stats site if you know one with those kinds of stats on because I'm absolutely certain Ronaldo will have taken a far higher percentage of the free-kicks than Balotelli did.

To be quite honest, you often pick and choose how you use set piece stats - when you've posted Tevez's goals/minutes ratio in the past you have done after removing his penalties, whereas with Balo you've left his penalties in there. An interesting comparison for me would be what is the comparison Balo/Dzeko if you remove Balo's pens from last season.

I think it's safe to say we'll never subordinate everyone else to ANY player to anything like the same extent that the rags did with Ronaldo. Mancini's not building that kind of side, and that's perfectly fine.

If we had a player with the unique talents of Ronaldo or Messi I've no doubt our side would be built to get the best out of them. Mancini's not building that side because he doesn't have that player, which is sort of the point if we go back to the start of the discussion. Mario has a long way to go to have that kind of impact on a team. He has the potential but this is a huge season for him.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you got any examples of other strikers coming of age at around this age range? I agree that the next couple of seasons we'll know a lot more about how far Mario can go. I thought that next season, at 23, would be the one where Mario really starts to kick on but after the summer he had at the Euro's I'ms till hopeful t might be this one

Torres got 33 in his first season at Liverpool (and in the league) and he had just turned 23.

Falcao got 34 in his first season at Porto and he had just turned 23.

Aguero got 27 goals for At Madrid at 21.

Cavani got 33 in his first season at Napoli and he was 23.

For me this is the season he's got to do it because City will have a huge decision to make next summer about his future. He'll only have 12 months left on his contract, and it's oft been repeated by his agent (and by Mario too i believe) that he's in England for the duration of his 4 year contract before he will move back to Italy. He's not one of our top earners, but he's certainly in the 100k plus bracket, which means an improved contract would put him up in the top earners. That's if he even wants to sign a contract. My biggest fear is he walks into the world cup in two years as a free agent. A lot of question marks still surround the lad, and I'm going to look as a big a twat as anyone if he doesn't live up to the hype as I was one of those who was convinced he was going to develop into the best centre forward in the world at City.

 

[Mancio]

Have you got any examples of other strikers coming of age at around this age range? I agree that the next couple of seasons we'll know a lot more about how far Mario can go. I thought that next season, at 23, would be the one where Mario really starts to kick on but after the summer he had at the Euro's I'ms till hopeful t might be this one

Torres got 33 in his first season at Liverpool (and in the league) and he had just turned 23.

Falcao got 34 in his first season at Porto and he had just turned 23.

Aguero got 27 goals for At Madrid at 21.

Cavani got 33 in his first season at Napoli and he was 23.

For me this is the season he's got to do it because City will have a huge decision to make next summer about his future. He'll only have 12 months left on his contract, and it's oft been repeated by his agent (and by Mario too i believe) that he's in England for the duration of his 4 year contract before he will move back to Italy. He's not one of our top earners, but he's certainly in the 100k plus bracket, which means an improved contract would put him up in the top earners. That's if he even wants to sign a contract. My biggest fear is he walks into the world cup in two years as a free agent. A lot of question marks still surround the lad, and I'm going to look as a big a twat as anyone if he doesn't live up to the hype as I was one of those who was convinced he was going to develop into the best centre forward in the world at City.

mario just turned 22 , not 23.

and , by the way , raiola has been all the summer repeating mario cannot , never , come back to italy becouse he earn too much for any italian team.