The Holistic Approach

meeesh

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johnmc said:
meeesh said:
johnmc said:
Please look into the definition of fact. Thanks

Look at the rags stats,stats are what you call fact,most shots,most assists,and most importantly for them twats most goals,so try and go off topic and being a smart arse all u want

And answer the question I posed to you was you away or somert ? Because you have missed a point somewhere along the line
No you misunderstand the meaning of the word fact. I don't need to look at stats. If you can show me a parallel universe where the rags didnt sign van Persie then fine.
You have lost me with the last part of your clever arse comment again am afraid,please elaborate a bit further
 

Joycee Banercheck

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mammutly said:
SWP's back said:
mammutly said:
I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Mancini didn't get RVP or Hazard

Pellegrini didn't get Cavani or Isco

Mancini sulked and had no fall back plans

See where I am going with this?

Yes. Waltzing away again into simple land - where flowers come in two colours, people in two types, and everything is easy to understand.
For a doctor you are very simple.
 

Caveman

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Joined
10 Nov 2012
Messages
5,299
SWP's back said:
Gelsons Dad said:
So by that interpretation "Holistic" means a balanced 1st team squad.
Very different to the usual interpretations espoused on here.

Given that we were in for a Jovetic already last preseason and we've missed some of our targets this time I don't think the transfer policy is any different. If anything it's the opposite of the more "holistic" youth first policy of last time.

My interpretation for what it's worth is that the term was used directly at the managers character and was misused to mean less autocratic.

We appear to have a less autocratic manager in place. Lets hope he can achieve the 5 trophies in 5 years target that he's been set. If he does, it will be great for us and the making of his reputation.
He won't be here 5 years.
If he does well be might well be. He'll only be 64 in five years time and we might be in a position during his three year contract where it would be stupid not to extend it.
 
A

Anonymous

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mammutly said:
Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.
Mancini also publicly stated that the four players signed last summer were his players, that he scouted and he chose to sign.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.
The article was written by someone who has watched enough of the four players we've signed to pass an educated opinion on them. Judging by your post I reckon you've never seen any of them play more than once or twice.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Classic Bluemoon. So "some hack" says something positive about City and your sneering at him because there's something in the article which you've taken as a slight against the mighty Bobby Manc ....
 

Fuzzmaster101

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Messages
1,734
meeesh said:
johnmc said:
meeesh said:
Look at the rags stats,stats are what you call fact,most shots,most assists,and most importantly for them twats most goals,so try and go off topic and being a smart arse all u want

And answer the question I posed to you was you away or somert ? Because you have missed a point somewhere along the line
No you misunderstand the meaning of the word fact. I don't need to look at stats. If you can show me a parallel universe where the rags didnt sign van Persie then fine.
You have lost me with the last part of your clever arse comment again am afraid,please elaborate a bit further
He means that unless you can show him a United that didn't sign Van Persie to compare to, you can't possibly state that Van Persie won them the league as fact. You can only surmise that he did, the fact is you don't know for sure. They may have given more games to Rooney and Hernandez without him and they went on to score a hatful. It's not likely but it's possible. They could have won by a larger margin without him. Again unlikely but possible.
 

mammutly

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BillyShears said:
mammutly said:
Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.
Mancini also publicly stated that the four players signed last summer were his players, that he scouted and he chose to sign.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.
The article was written by someone who has watched enough of the four players we've signed to pass an educated opinion on them. Judging by your post I reckon you've never seen any of them play more than once or twice.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Classic Bluemoon. So "some hack" says something positive about City and your sneering at him because there's something in the article which you've taken as a slight against the mighty Bobby Manc ....
I haven't taken a slight against anything Billy. The anti Italian agenda is your blag.

All I'm saying is that Mancini didn't get his A list targets last season and that he bemoaned the delay in completing any transfer business. That's a matter of record.

And the players we have signed this year will, I hope, be successful for us. But neither you, I, or anybody else, knows for a fact that they will be yet.

Not opinions, Billy. Just the bleedin obvious.
 

meeesh

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All over the place
Fuzzmaster101 said:
meeesh said:
johnmc said:
No you misunderstand the meaning of the word fact. I don't need to look at stats. If you can show me a parallel universe where the rags didnt sign van Persie then fine.
You have lost me with the last part of your clever arse comment again am afraid,please elaborate a bit further
He means that unless you can show him a United that didn't sign Van Persie to compare to, you can't possibly state that Van Persie won them the league as fact. You can only surmise that he did, the fact is you don't know for sure. They may have given more games to Rooney and Hernandez without him and they went on to score a hatful. It's not likely but it's possible. They could have won by a larger margin without him. Again unlikely but possible.

Ah rite OK I see what he means now,thanks for explaining.he was still just wanting to cause an argument I think,and I'm more than happy to oblige all the same,as much as I hate the dutch rapist and the rag twats,IMO he won em the title last season,and many,many people (not necessarily Blues) will not disagree with that fact or not
 

schfc6

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5,816
meeesh said:
schfc6 said:
Firstly the notion that RVP won the league for United is frankly bollocks. United statistically did not improve from season 2011/12. RVP scored 26 goals compared to Rooney's 27 the season before.

RVP, scoring 26 league goals is about standard for United's main man. Let's not forget that there's normally 7-10 penalties per season for their penalty taker. If Rooney had taken the pens that RVP did, their league totals would have been similar last year.

United bought the leagues best striker, statistically they went backwards. It was City that drastically under achieved and went backwards at a canter.86-89 points will be required nearly every year to win the Prem.
United got 89 points, but still wouldn't have won the league in 2011/12.

We dropped what? 8 more points at home than the season before? Only 3 more than the season before away from home.
So you could argue that our home form cost us, reverse the derby and things would have looked a lot closer.

RVP was a good signing but he did nothing the Rooney didn't do the season before.

That asides, the holistic approach is or seems to be looking good. We have bought round pegs for round holes. Siging a Cavanini or a Falcao would have been detrimental to the team. Neither are as good as Aguero, yet both would demand to be top dog, where as Sergio is a great team player, and great impact sub and all in all a very good man to have around.

An elite signing would demand to play week in week out. How do you build a team based on this? The players we have bought seem ideal for what we need, I along with many fans believe that pace on the left and cover at right sided centre half are all we are short of an excellent squad.

The holistic approach has arguably been seen in full working order already. The players seem happier, some egos have left and even the wages seem more parable throughout the squad.
The ideas of the Spaniards and Pellegrini have made our squad look significantly stronger more balance, I dare say a tighter group with a team ethos at heart.

Emphasis seems to be with Zabba, Richards, Kompany, Aguero, Milner and Nastasic to front the squad, all players with incredible team ethic. Navas is a hard working winger, Jovetic is a grafter with a great team ethic as is Negredo and Fernadinho gave up what £4 million to join us.
We have added four international players, strong, established players yet reduced our wage bill. This makes it hard to mock the 'holistic approach'.

Pellegrini has or seems to have got the squad believing they are a team. He hears rumours in the paper, he tells the media that he is happy with his squad, but if the right player comes up, well we'll always consider it. He hears rumours about Dzeko, what does he do? He tells the World that he believes Dzeko to be a great player with an important future at City. I loved Mancini, but he sometimes didn't play the game.

Pellegrini will tell the media that Dzeko is irraplacable, a great player, someone he's admired for years. This has three very good effects.
1. Dzeko feels great, happy to play and builds his confidence. Then we see some great performances in some very difficult conditions.
2. Tell the rest of the squad that he has faith in the players here. That he will give everyone a chance.
3. Indicates to the World that Dzeko is important, even if he isn't. Thus keeping his value high.

As I say I loved Mancini, I highly rate Mourinho, but as a business man, I wouldn't want them doing my sales and purchasing.
Both make it abundantly clear that they want to buy, that they will buy at almost any price, driving prices up. Both will also make it clear as day if they dislike a player, and his value will plummet.

In my eventual summary. I think we have a better team, a better squad, and happier squad and youth will see that the appointment of Viera as an indication that we intend to take our youth very seriously.

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all
Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
mammutly said:
BillyShears said:
mammutly said:
Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.
Mancini also publicly stated that the four players signed last summer were his players, that he scouted and he chose to sign.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.
The article was written by someone who has watched enough of the four players we've signed to pass an educated opinion on them. Judging by your post I reckon you've never seen any of them play more than once or twice.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Classic Bluemoon. So "some hack" says something positive about City and your sneering at him because there's something in the article which you've taken as a slight against the mighty Bobby Manc ....
I haven't taken a slight against anything Billy. The anti Italian agenda is your blag.

All I'm saying is that Mancini didn't get his A list targets last season and that he bemoaned the delay in completing any transfer business. That's a matter of record.

And the players we have signed this year will, I hope, be successful for us. But neither you, I, or anybody else, knows for a fact that they will be yet.

Not opinions, Billy. Just the bleedin obvious.
What you've said in this thread is self evident. Mancini was responsible for last summer's signings. If you want to dispute that feel free. Won't make it any less true.
 

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