The Labour Government

gordondaviesmoustache said:
Yes, I understand that and would hope (and expect) there would be exemptions for pensioners, but as an overall policy I think it’s currently unjustifiable, given that people who live on their own (like me) who earn (like me) and don’t have any dependents (sort of like me, although I will be supporting my son during his pHd) have no justification for getting a discount on council tax when (like me) they elect to live alone and take a dwelling up for themselves. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that (obviously) but I fail to see why they should get a discount per se when they have their bins collected just as frequently (for example).

There is a wider point to this, and people need to wake up to it, and it does very much engage the elderly. Taxes are going to have to rise generally if we are going to make the books balance. This is partly due to Covid, and the need to increase defence spending due, in particular, to the threat from Russia; but it is principally because of the evolving demographic make up of this country with the associated demands on health and social care that will entail.

People can huff and puff about this tax and that tax, but that is the reality, and the alternative is old people dying in ways that are avoidable because we will not meet their needs. The low tax party that we’ve enjoyed of the last forty or so years is over. It really is a straightforward as that in my view.

This will involve pain for all of us. It will include some pensioners following means testing, it will involve people who work hard for what they earn (like me) it will involve people with assets and it will hopefully involve the very rich too. Anyone who can afford to is going to have to take up the slack, and this will include many people who will feel aggrieved because of how hard they’ve worked to acquire what they have, but the sums don’t otherwise add up.

And if we don’t bridge that gap, then what does that say about us as a society? It says that we weren’t prepare to take the pain that was required to remain a civilised society.
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It always comes down who they take it off and how much, they haven't made a great start tbh.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
There are things they can do quickly and things that are more systemic. They need to be judged in a few years time, not now - and I didn’t even vote for them!
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True but the fuel payment isn't big enough to make any real change to the finances so needn't have been done so soon. It was a very poor political move which is a tad worrying so soon.
I saw Starmer being interviewed before on the Beeb and he was totally unconvincing on the subject.
 
hilts said:
True but the fuel payment isn't big enough to make any real change to the finances so needn't have been done so soon. It was a very poor political move which is a tad worrying so soon.
I saw Starmer being interviewed before on the Beeb and he was totally unconvincing on the subject.
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He often is in front of a camera. He’s socially quite awkward and doesn’t project the same self-confidence as his last three predecessors.

I think they felt they needed to make a statement early on, for better or worse.

They’ve got a huge mess to sort out. They will make mistakes, but it’s far too soon to judge how they are going about trying to sort that mess.
 
stonerblue said:
You'll be getting a £400 a year pay rise soon.
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And what will certain members of the public working be getting as rises? My last 3 years in work I got nil, nada, zero pay rises, but still paid my NI contributions for 40 years to fund the state. The £400 is nothing to do with this government, its triple lock which existed before I was on state pension.
 
69FACUPfinal said:
And what will certain members of the public working be getting as rises? My last 3 years in work I got nil, nada, zero pay rises, but still paid my NI contributions for 40 years to fund the state. The £400 is nothing to do with this government, its triple lock which existed before I was on state pension.
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£400 is peanuts. The UK state pension is very low relative to most, if not all other Western European countries. That’s one of the reasons the triple lock was introduced. To improve that situation. £220 a week is hardly generous. As I recently explained to the 23yo son of one of my friends, who was complaining about it: you will be an OAP one day. And that day will come much quicker than he could ever imagine. Be careful what you wish for, and even more careful what you vote for…
 
Scottyboi said:
I wish Islam in the UK went through the same change as Christianity and goes on the backburner. Cba with devout religious nutjobs who think women should be second class citizens and that their religion cannot be the subject of comedy, it's all very serious.
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Very unlikely to get a secular society led by Islam, even Christianity a few hundred years ago didn't impose an absolute way of life on its followers like Islam does today in certain countries, even some Muslim communities here.
 
69FACUPfinal said:
And what will certain members of the public working be getting as rises? My last 3 years in work I got nil, nada, zero pay rises, but still paid my NI contributions for 40 years to fund the state. The £400 is nothing to do with this government, its triple lock which existed before I was on state pension.
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If it's the 5.71% that's predicted it'll be circa £650 which you fully deserve after paying in for 40 years.

What some people don't realise is the current cost of living increases eats into the savings us FOC's have made to make our retired life comfortable whereby some people in employment are now getting inflation busting pay rises.

A brick layer I know is now charging £300'a day and his "hod carrier" gets £170 a day, equivalent to £40k per year for a labourer.
 
PPT said:
£400 is peanuts. The UK state pension is very low relative to most, if not all other Western European countries. That’s one of the reasons the triple lock was introduced. To improve that situation. £220 a week is hardly generous. As I recently explained to the 23yo son of one of my friends, who was complaining about it: you will be an OAP one day. And that day will come much quicker than he could ever imagine. Be careful what you wish for, and even more careful what you vote for…
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A few of the purple posters on here have got themselves into a support Labour at all costs mess on this. For years they have rightfully moaned how our state pension is poor and compared to a lot of other European countries it is. We should be paying them more they rightfully cried.
When energy prices went up they demanded more help from the Tories for everyone including pensioners and rightly so.
Then a strange thing happened their party immediately scrapped the fuel allowance for all those not on pension benefits. They knew those above the line could well struggle but no they had to defend their party. All of a sudden their beliefs suddenly changed, those rich pensioners sod them but rather alarmingly those pensioners who aren't wealthy well that's their own fault. They should have got themselves a nice private pension like they have. The posters who hate the I'm alright Jack's of this world are now behaving like them.
Now the state pension is going up again in April so I presume they will be against this because a lot of those pensioners have a private pension? No? Thought not its like they're not judging a policy just the people delivering it.
The best though are the ones saying yeah but they're getting a rise in April.

I never knew winter starts in April next year or that Germans don't have private pensions which is why they get better state pensions.

Do we want decent state pensions and warm pensioners or not. The answer shouldn't be based on the party you vote for.
 
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The problem with governments is that they bring in initiatives that are hard to take away once they have done it without causing a shit storm. The winter fuel allowance being one.

The Tory party cut national insurance by 2% when no one was asking for this and they knew that they were almost certainly going to lose an election. That just creates a bigger tax hole.
 
hammocity said:
Very unlikely to get a secular society led by Islam, even Christianity a few hundred years ago didn't impose an absolute way of life on its followers like Islam does today in certain countries, even some Muslim communities here.
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How about 500 years ago?
 
69FACUPfinal said:
And what will certain members of the public working be getting as rises? My last 3 years in work I got nil, nada, zero pay rises, but still paid my NI contributions for 40 years to fund the state. The £400 is nothing to do with this government, its triple lock which existed before I was on state pension.
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Dunno about your first question but it's irrelevant to my point.
The triplelock was a manifesto promise from Labour at the last election. They are now in power so has everything to do with this government.
 
PPT said:
£400 is peanuts. The UK state pension is very low relative to most, if not all other Western European countries. That’s one of the reasons the triple lock was introduced. To improve that situation. £220 a week is hardly generous. As I recently explained to the 23yo son of one of my friends, who was complaining about it: you will be an OAP one day. And that day will come much quicker than he could ever imagine. Be careful what you wish for, and even more careful what you vote for…
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Does that mean the wfp is even more 'peanuts'?
 
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