The Labour Government

mosssideblue said:
Are you not happy the strikes are over?
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Doesn’t sound like they are over though does it, if they intend to strike again next year? If you hand over a very large pay rise with no conditions or acknowledgment around pay restoration, and then downplay the cost of this settlement, then it’s no surprise that strikes remain on the agenda.

I think the drop in the ocean comment from Reeves was incredibly naive, and will have aggravated the situation.
 
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Brewster's millions said:
Doesn’t sound like they are over though does it, if they intend to strike again next year? If you hand over a very large pay rise with no conditions or acknowledgment around pay restoration, and then downplay the cost of this settlement, then it’s no surprise that strikes remain on the agenda.

I think the drop in the ocean comment from Reeves was incredibly naive, and will have aggravated the situation.
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I may be wrong but sure it was claimed on TV yesterday that future strikes are not on the agenda anymore
 
Brewster's millions said:
Doesn’t sound like they are over though does it, if they intend to strike again next year? If you hand over a very large pay rise with no conditions or acknowledgment around pay restoration, and then downplay the cost of this settlement, then it’s no surprise that strikes remain on the agenda.

I think the drop in the ocean comment from Reeves was incredibly naive, and will have aggravated the situation.
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I suspect the drop in the ocean comment ( whilst not a good look) is referring to the consequences of ongoing strikes
 
Kompany Car said:
Yet there was a junior doctors representative on 5 Live this morning pretty much saying if we dont get another inflation busting pay rise there's likely to be strike action from April 2025. Now there may be a bit of posturing going on, but there is a clear message that acceptance of the most recent offer is just a small respite until after the winter.

Have a listen back it was on around 7:15am. I appreciate its too early to fully judge, but how the government handle this going forwards ensuring that any future increases are linked to contractual reforms around retention of staff during and post full qualification should be the crux of if its correct and successful or just bowing to union pressure.
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Yup. They know how to get what they want. Nurses vote result will be known soon. They also know how to get what they want - Mrs MB has voted for strike action. They can bring a hospital to a standstill far more effectively than a junior doctor and the nurses (that I hear of) are really really pissed off now - if they go out A&E / cancer services will remain covered but gloves off for anything else, let the junior doctors put a pinni on and do the ward work is the general feeling I’m hearing (although I would expect that covered as well) - but forget out patient clinics and routine operations - build the backlog = get pay deal. The sense of unity in the NHS of shit pay and shit work has been shattered.
 
mosssideblue said:
I may be wrong but sure it was claimed on TV yesterday that future strikes are not on the agenda anymore
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As @Kompany Car posted earlier, a representative of the BMA was on 5live this morning (just after 7am if you want to listen to it) and he seemed quite adamant that if the April 2025 pay offer wasn’t substantially above inflation, then they would striking again or at least moving to do so.

The BMA are sticking to this 20% real terms pay cut figure, and want their future pay rewards to restore this. Unfortunately you can only justify this 20% figure by using RPI as the inflation measure, which shouldn’t really be happening because of flaws with the RPI, and so this could prove a difficult issue next spring.
 
Brewster's millions said:
As @Kompany Car posted earlier, a representative of the BMA was on 5live this morning (just after 7am if you want to listen to it) and he seemed quite adamant that if the April 2025 pay offer wasn’t substantially above inflation, then they would striking again or at least moving to do so.

The BMA are sticking to this 20% real terms pay cut figure, and want their future pay rewards to restore this. Unfortunately you can only justify this 20% figure by using RPI as the inflation measure, which shouldn’t really be happening because of flaws with the RPI, and so this could prove a difficult issue next spring.
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Fair enough. The problem is now the NHS is in the driving seat and, for me, this is a result of years of austerity and undervaluing the staff at all levels.

It’s down to Labour now to sort this and I believe they will
 
metalblue said:
Yup. They know how to get what they want. Nurses vote result will be known soon. They also know how to get what they want - Mrs MB has voted for strike action. They can bring a hospital to a standstill far more effectively than a junior doctor and the nurses (that I hear of) are really really pissed off now - if they go out A&E / cancer services will remain covered but gloves off for anything else, let the junior doctors put a pinni on and do the ward work is the general feeling I’m hearing (although I would expect that covered as well) - but forget out patient clinics and routine operations - build the backlog = get pay deal. The sense of unity in the NHS of shit pay and shit work has been shattered.
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That sounds like a good thing mate. No one should accept shit working conditions and shit pay. Hope your wife and her colleagues get what they deserve and they feel is right.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I admit it's a big mistake, but I believe you should judge them on their record not on one issue.
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That policy will forever haunt them, just like Thatcher the milk snatcher haunted her, that's why I cannot believe they thought the policy was a good idea. Especially as they made a.big deal about pensioners riding on buses all day to keep warm when they were in opposition.
Also they were elected to govern Britain first. If there is a 22 billion black hole ( Which if there is the police should be investigating it as it looks like fraud to me ) then giving 11 billion to Africa, 4 billion to Italy and almost 4 billion to Ukraine ( recurring) isn't going down well.
 
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hcblue95 said:
That sounds like a good thing mate. No one should accept shit working conditions and shit pay. Hope your wife and her colleagues get what they deserve and they feel is right.
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Agreed mate. I’ve said before on these hallowed pages that public sector pay rises are good for private sector pay as well.

There are certain professions like fire service where there isn’t equivalent private sector work you can do - although they might be able to earn a few extra quid being a stripper ;).

So how do you measure pay? How should society properly value these roles - I suppose it used to be with good pensions but that’s no longer the case. Like millions of others I go to work, do my job, come home and unwind. I’m not haunted by memories of cutting a family out of a car or having sat and listened to someone who has just been told they are dying or going to the crime scene of someone I’d been trying to get out of a coercive relationship. And so on and so forth, I couldn’t do any of these jobs but I’m grateful some can and do. Money is a fairly crass way to measure what they do but it’s about all we have - that and respect for their work.

To this end I hope Labour do so to the best of their ability - and to be fair to them they’ve certainly indicated they intend to do well here although they’ve been a bit clumsy about the narrative so far and pissed off folk. I can’t recall which union it was but they said it would cost the state £50bn annually for public sector pay restoration - that doesn’t feel like a number that is unachievable let’s just bite the bullet, signal it will get done, figure out how to pay for it and get on with it over the course of the next year.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Why not? Introduced by John Majors Government (without any form of Cost Benefit / Impact analysis) . Abandoned by Labour when they realised the true cost (see Andy Burnhams statement)

Good enough for you when the Tories used it?
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That is some rewriting of history that pal fair play. The "why not the Tories did it" line sums up where we are. If you ditched the red rose tinted specs you might notice it.
 
metalblue said:
It’s was the derogatory nature of your posts
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Why should I always be respectful in language to people who don't help themselves and display an overt level of selfishness and carelessness?

A few weeks ago I was on my lunch break, witnessed what looked like the best man. With kiddies as the happy couple was having their pics taken. He then sparked up with kiddie at waist height and held his cigarette at same height with kiddie next to him. Utter careless and selfishness and all due to the disgusting habit.

Some smokers are bloody entitled and damn right rude, doesn't cost them anything to swap Cigarettes to nicotine replacement products (even after buying the products they have saved money) but plenty I speak to want free NRT without even meeting the expectations that come with getting it for free.
 
Postman Pep said:
That is some rewriting of history that pal fair play. The "why not the Tories did it" line sums up where we are. If you ditched the red rose tinted specs you might notice it.
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Yup.

It’s a shit idea. Costs a multiplier. Imposes all sorts of operational requirements on the public sector. Borrow the money, own it, and run it as you want.

PFI should be consigned to the history books.
 
metalblue said:
All great policies. If that’s all they’d done I’d be praising them.

All of them drowned out by the WFA. It’s a huge mistake - not removing it but where they have set it being removed. The reasons given for removing it getting more desperate and bizarre. Fairly or not the public have linked it to public sector pay rises due to the clumsy timing of the announcement.

I can guarantee a pensioner, who was previously receiving the WFA, will die of hyperthermia this winter, in fact thousands will. They may well have died of hyperthermia if the WFA remained but the headlines and view the public get are going to be horrible. “Reeves Reeves lets them freeze” will be a headline.

The government hope it will all be forgotten next election but partygate and the such paint that as a dangerous strategy as the voting public are very able to ignore any good done and magnify the bad. Reeves will know she has fucked up (you can see it in her face) but wants to instil confidence in the iron chancellor and not create an impression of being floppy on policy. Starmer knows he should sack Reeves and reverse it but he can’t then point to stability. He may have even considered a free vote to let it be defeated but had to back Reeves. It has been a disaster and the government is trying to tough it out.

Reeves is now going to have to tread very carefully in her October budget to not create unintended consequences on her tax raising policies. Nor create a huge sense of unfairness.

But yeah good job on renters bill and that.
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I'm not quibbling over the mess of the WFA - but thousands will not die of hypothermia. Deaths where hypothermia is given as a cause of death are in tens, not thousands. However, "cold" is not usually given as a cause of death, but will be contributory.

There will be "excess winter deaths" which in reality just means more people die in the winter months than in other seasons. The key question is how many of those deaths are attributable to living in a cold and/or damp home (estimates vary around 20-30%). Then how many of those deaths could be attributed to getting only £221 a week rather than £225? (It was a difference in 1999 of £66 and £68.)

I'm sure you're right about the headlines though.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Why should I always be respectful in language to people who don't help themselves and display an overt level of selfishness and carelessness?

A few weeks ago I was on my lunch break, witnessed what looked like the best man. With kiddies as the happy couple was having their pics taken. He then sparked up with kiddie at waist height and held his cigarette at same height with kiddie next to him. Utter careless and selfishness and all due to the disgusting habit.

Some smokers are bloody entitled and damn right rude, doesn't cost them anything to swap Cigarettes to nicotine replacement products (even after buying the products they have saved money) but plenty I speak to want free NRT without even meeting the expectations that come with getting it for free.
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You’re absolutely right in much of that, some are very entitled and don’t give a shit where they spark up. It’s a reflection of wider issues of entitlement in society IMHO.
 
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