The Labour Government

[metalblue]

The cost of developing the F35 was around 40Bn, our entire defence budget was only 52Bn last year. Once you have a platform sustainment becomes a major factor and this is where economies of scale become important as it significantly reduces the costs.

Working with European partners was damaged due to Brexit and the need for VTOL aircraft is pretty limited considering only a handful of friendly nations have operational aircraft carriers.

Whilst the principles of ultra low radar cross section aircraft are well understood, the US is still the leader in this field and from a NATO perspective having a common integrated platform with networked targeting systems allows a much more effective use of ordinance.

All in all it made sense to use the F35B. It should be noted that a fair proportion of the F35 is actually provided by the UK including electronic systems and some parts of the airframe.

All very fair points mate. I seem to recall at the time when we decommissioned the harriers the US navy purchased them before going on to build their own VTOL - I might be wrong on timelines.

We’ve built some amazing aircraft over the years.

 

[threespires]

I don't go to Tesco

Been reading a fair bit about the UK food system recently, it's so dysfunctional it's headspinning.

 

[inbetween]

The cost of developing the F35 was around 40Bn, our entire defence budget was only 52Bn last year. Once you have a platform sustainment becomes a major factor and this is where economies of scale become important as it significantly reduces the costs.

Working with European partners was damaged due to Brexit and the need for VTOL aircraft is pretty limited considering only a handful of friendly nations have operational aircraft carriers.

Whilst the principles of ultra low radar cross section aircraft are well understood, the US is still the leader in this field and from a NATO perspective having a common integrated platform with networked targeting systems allows a much more effective use of ordinance.

All in all it made sense to use the F35B. It should be noted that a fair proportion of the F35 is actually provided by the UK including electronic systems and some parts of the airframe.

F35 may have cost £40bn to develop but that cost is spread over many years whereas the defence budget is per year. If F35 development began say 15 years ago then that's still only £2.5bn per year, 2.5% of the defence budget. It doesn't quite work like that but we certainly don't need to find £40bn from anywhere this year or any year for F35.

The cost savings for F35 will come once they eventually achieve full operating capability (late 2025) and then start to move more support work into UK industry.

A major reason why many European operators have bought F35 is purely because unlike other European aircraft F35 is certified to carry US nuclear weapons. Having a fleet of stealth F35s to call upon is a major capability advance for the NATO nuclear deterrence.

Brexit is pretty irrelevant to defence. If the worse happens and European countries and the EU bureaucracy are too busy arguing over political borders then we're in more trouble than we thought...

 

[kaz7]

I think the MOD needs to move into the 21st century and realise that they need to make having a naval career not only and time exciting but financially rewarding. They have offered existing recruits a £500 bonus if they can attract new personnel, but this is clearly peanuts.

Having spoken to one or two on here who have served , they have said that recruitment is so bad that it results in longer ship deployments, which result in less recruitment and people leaving ie catch 22.

I worked offshore in the oil industry early in my career. The reason most work away from home in the offshore industry is the pay is alot better than working onshore doing a 5 day week. If the government gave every RN ship crew a 50% pay rise to reflect the commitment and deployment time, I wouldnt mind betting the recruitment issues would dissapear.

You have to move with the times, and the costs involved would be small fry compared to the waste and cost in government in other areas.

I was married to the first mr k when he was on ship in the falklands , that was the height of the career in the navy , he travelled the world , it was great life, we are never getting back to a thriving navy again, let it go

 

[BrianW]

I would suggest aircraft carriers are not needed for national defence. The UK is one giant aircraft carrier. Their purpose is to project power, and I am generally averse to that as it implies us poking our noses into conflicts around the world. We have done enough of that in the past and got little thanks and many graves in return.

As an amateur, under the correction of naval experts, I suggest that in an age of drones that can sink very expensive ships very cheaply, we are more in need of fast, flexible ships that are heavily armed and bristling with technology.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The thing with these pricks they enjoy their 15 mins of fame without understanding that whichever side you are on you invite a media pile on checking your back story - best do a stint of curation before popping your head over the parapet. Or it could be there are just too many to make it feasible. Or just that you are a rich racist homophobe who stands by your past because thats what you believe

Farmer protest organiser was behind racist and homophobic posts online

Clive Bailye, one of the five farmers who organised the march in the capital, wrote: "only a disabled, unemployed, black, LGBT, transgender, non tax paying, homeless, vegan immigrant in immediate need of NHS help" would vote Labour

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[kaz7]

The thing with these pricks they enjoy their 15 mins of fame without understanding that whichever side you are on you invite a media pile on checking your back story - best do a stint of curation before popping your head over the parapet. Or it could be there are just too many to make it feasible. Or just that you are a rich racist homophobe who stands by your past because thats what you believe

Farmer protest organiser was behind racist and homophobic posts online

Clive Bailye, one of the five farmers who organised the march in the capital, wrote: "only a disabled, unemployed, black, LGBT, transgender, non tax paying, homeless, vegan immigrant in immediate need of NHS help" would vote Labour

www.mirror.co.uk

Seems like a nice fella

 

[hilts]

Labour minister on SkyNews now defending the WFA cut by telling us they are introducing a £1Billion support package for those in fuel poverty and that we can install a heat pump for just £7500 thanks to them.

Worried about putting the heating on for a few hours so I’d wager a heat pump for £7500 is the last thing on anyone’s mind, especially when it’s practically useless without major work on the property insulation wise.

Gaslighting fuckers!

Let them eat cake type of response that.

 

[Kompany Car]

F35 may have cost £40bn to develop but that cost is spread over many years whereas the defence budget is per year. If F35 development began say 15 years ago then that's still only £2.5bn per year, 2.5% of the defence budget. It doesn't quite work like that but we certainly don't need to find £40bn from anywhere this year or any year for F35.

The cost savings for F35 will come once they eventually achieve full operating capability (late 2025) and then start to move more support work into UK industry.

A major reason why many European operators have bought F35 is purely because unlike other European aircraft F35 is certified to carry US nuclear weapons. Having a fleet of stealth F35s to call upon is a major capability advance for the NATO nuclear deterrence.

Brexit is pretty irrelevant to defence. If the worse happens and European countries and the EU bureaucracy are too busy arguing over political borders then we're in more trouble than we thought...

A lot of the knowledge and pitfalls during the development of the F22 particularly around the stealth aspects fed into the F35, even though in reality its based on a completely different X plane. Without F22 it it would have cost considerably more. Saying we need to find 2.5Bn per yr over 15yrs mean 2.5Bn less for other projects such as our nuclear deterrent which is pretty much crumbling and only now is Devonport and Faslane getting much need money spent on them.

Carrying US B61 nukes isnt exactly difficult considering Tornado aircraft have had the capability for many years. The only real benefit of the F35 in this regard is that it can use the latest variant with its variable yield capability and higher precision targeting, which I guess is more important if you're using them as battlefield nukes, but they can still be dropped in dumb mode by a range of aircraft.

As regards Brexit the Institute for Strategic Studies and RUSI (The Royal United Services Institute) have a number of publications which outline the negative impact in relation to future cooperation on military equipment development.

Its not that the UK cant do it, the question is whether there was a big enough market for a British built VTOL aircraft when the F35B was already developed.

The replacement for the Typhoon is currently under development by BAe, MBDA etc. Known as Tempest they are set to have a working prototype in the next 3 years and is a joint venture with Japan and Italy. So we still have the knowledge and capability even if Tempest wont enter service for another 10yrs plus.

 

[Postman Pep]

Saying it out loud. Someone will be along shortly to explain why this is a good thing.