The Labour Government

[bluenova]

I'm not sure about means testing, but personally I'd be more than happy to have a ring fenced tax increase if it went to funding the NHS properly, where it is most needed.

I wouldn't notice a few quid a month or whatever.

That, and I think people should have to pay a deposit for GP appointments. A fiver or something, which if your appointment was actually necessary and you turn up on time, is refunded. If you don't turn up or you're some selfish thick parent clogging up an appointment because your brat has a sniffle, you forfeit the deposit and get told to fuck off.

There, I've sorted the NHS crisis in 30 seconds.

That reminds me of one of the chapters of Freakonomics. A nursery had problems with parents picking up late, so they introduced a system of fines for anyone collecting late.

Problem is that it made the situation worse, as people apparently felt entitled to turn up late more often, as they were paying for it.

£5 deposits for GP appointments are only a disincentive to the very poorest, who are most likely to need healthcare. I would expect that you'll get some people not trying, because they can't afford it, and subsequently ending up even more ill, while others will feel like they now have the right to abuse the system as they're paying.

It would also not surprise me if GP surgeries had already built an assumption that some appointments would be missed, into their workloads. It's not like they're famously underworked, after all.

 

[hilts]

Are we getting to the point where people will start questioning the NHS itself?

A journalist on Question Time(a low tax guy) said something that in itself wasnt particularly interesting but the response from others in the room was for me.

He said the NHS could no longer be described as cheap nor described as particularly good in comparisons to other countries health systems.

Normally you would get mainly booing from the audience and outrage fake or otherwise from certain politicians. What we got was a fair amount of approval.from the audience and the panel didn't bat an eyelid.

Have the problems with doctor appointments, ambulance delays, A&E waits, operations, cancer treatment, nurse shortages and more started to make people question it all.

 

[blueinsa]

Are we getting to the point where people will start questioning the NHS itself?

A journalist on Question Time(a low tax guy) said something that in itself wasnt particularly interesting but the response from others in the room was for me.

He said the NHS could no longer be described as cheap nor described as particularly good in comparisons to other countries health systems.

Normally you would get mainly booing from the audience and outrage fake or otherwise from certain politicians. What we got was a fair amount of approval.from the audience and the panel didn't bat an eyelid.

Have the problems with doctor appointments, ambulance delays, A&E waits, operations, cancer treatment, nurse shortages and more started to make people question it all.

It’s at the end of its natural life as we know it and by that I mean a free at the point of need service.

An ever ageing and growing population means it can simply no longer afforded as is and we face a stark choice.

We pay a NHS tax or we pay private in some form or other.

 

[frothy]

It’s at the end of its natural life as we know it and by that I mean a free at the point of need service.

An ever ageing and growing population means it can simply no longer afforded as is and we face a stark choice.

We pay a NHS tax or we pay private in some form or other.

My wife has worked in the NHS for 50 years most of it as a Nurse, she now works in research in her department there are 12 people and 6 of them are managers on band 6 the highest grade, some of them have no medical training but they have a degree in something not related to the job, it's a fucking joke

 

[TinFoilHat]

Are we getting to the point where people will start questioning the NHS itself?

A journalist on Question Time(a low tax guy) said something that in itself wasnt particularly interesting but the response from others in the room was for me.

He said the NHS could no longer be described as cheap nor described as particularly good in comparisons to other countries health systems.

Normally you would get mainly booing from the audience and outrage fake or otherwise from certain politicians. What we got was a fair amount of approval.from the audience and the panel didn't bat an eyelid.

Have the problems with doctor appointments, ambulance delays, A&E waits, operations, cancer treatment, nurse shortages and more started to make people question it all.

I agree we need a big conversation about it.

One easy saving for it would be putting in the country an education program about self care and understanding of when to use the organisation and not clog up A&E because you've got the sniffles.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I agree we need a big conversation about it.

One easy saving for it would be putting in the country an education program about self care and understanding of when to use the organisation and not clog up A&E because you've got the sniffles.

There is probably something (see Germany, France and possibly Australia) in-between the current NHS and the nightmarish prospect of US healthcare

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I agree we need a big conversation about it.

One easy saving for it would be putting in the country an education program about self care and understanding of when to use the organisation and not clog up A&E because you've got the sniffles.

Spot on.

I don't work in healthcare but I do work for a service that improves people's health. Because they get free supplies from us they don't actually value the service they get and can become quite entitled. Even when missing appointments and failing to meet the basic expectations.

One bloke called our number complaining about sleeping pills because he'd picked them up at the same time. Had to tell him to call his GP and book another appointment.

I disagree, with the general stuff about not getting an appointment easily though.

I had to get an emergency appointment at my GP surgery because I had an inflamed wound on my foot that had been in contact with muck. Didn't want sepsis or to go to A&E.

Same day appointment with nurse practioner, antibiotics and follow up appointment the following week to check on progress. Brilliant service.

But some arseholes will complain because the nurse practioner saw them for their seasonal illness instead of a GP.

 

[Hertzblue]

Hopefully you don't believe the bankers who helped to crash the economy in 2008?

I believe what I personally see and hear and trust my own judgement. In this instance what I see and hear chimes more closely with those banks than the IMF. In fact I am actually more pessimistic than that , I think we will shortly find growth of 0.7 % will look optimistic and the IMF will be miles off.

 

[69FACUPfinal]

My wife has worked in the NHS for 50 years most of it as a Nurse, she now works in research in her department there are 12 people and 6 of them are managers on band 6 the highest grade, some of them have no medical training but they have a degree in something not related to the job, it's a fucking joke

Absolutely spot on. Far too many managers and not enough clinical staff around. I won't knock the NHS as our local hospital saved my hubs life after the Big C diagnosis but because we go regularly we don't half see where there are too many not actually delivering care. It's too far ingrained in the culture for any changes to be made.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Spot on.

I don't work in healthcare but I do work for a service that improves people's health. Because they get free supplies from us they don't actually value the service they get and can become quite entitled. Even when missing appointments and failing to meet the basic expectations.

One bloke called our number complaining about sleeping pills because he'd picked them up at the same time. Had to tell him to call his GP and book another appointment.

I disagree, with the general stuff about not getting an appointment easily though.

I had to get an emergency appointment at my GP surgery because I had an inflamed wound on my foot that had been in contact with muck. Didn't want sepsis or to go to A&E.

Same day appointment with nurse practioner, antibiotics and follow up appointment the following week to check on progress. Brilliant service.

But some arseholes will complain because the nurse practioner saw them for their seasonal illness instead of a GP.

My nurse practioner is excellent.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I agree we need a big conversation about it.

One easy saving for it would be putting in the country an education program about self care and understanding of when to use the organisation and not clog up A&E because you've got the sniffles.

Talking about changing the way the NHS is funded and gradually bringing private health care funding is i think a big no for politicians , no one wants to be the one to start down that road.

 

[frothy]

Absolutely spot on. Far too many managers and not enough clinical staff around. I won't knock the NHS as our local hospital saved my hubs life after the Big C diagnosis but because we go regularly we don't half see where there are too many not actually delivering care. It's too far ingrained in the culture for any changes to be made.

I would never knock the NHS my wife also had Cancer and the care she received at the Christie 20 years ago was brilliant and I am sure it still is, but it could be even better for everyone if there wasn't so many managers and people being employed on ridiculous salaries for made up roles in Inclusion and Equality roles, she gets internal Emails every week advertising these roles

 

[Kompany Car]

Furthermore, anyone born after the 6th April 1968 won't qualify until they are 68.

Not quite true that mate, its still 67, there were proposal to make it 68 from 2044 to 2046, but the most recent review proposed bringing it forwards to between 2037 and 2039. In all cases it would be phased increasing by 1 month intervals for those born between April 1970 and April 1978.

This however is subject to further review and was based on the premise that life expectancy was continuing to increase, but the most recent government report published in 2023 has shown that in the UK its levelled off and certainly not growing at previous rates.

Another review is due to be published sometime next year regarding any future changes to the age of 68.

 

[69FACUPfinal]

I would never knock the NHS my wife also had Cancer and the care she received at the Christie 20 years ago was brilliant and I am sure it still is, but it could be even better for everyone if there wasn't so many managers and people being employed on ridiculous salaries for made up roles in Inclusion and Equality roles, she gets internal Emails every week advertising these roles

Cap doffed Sir. X

 

[hilts]

Talking about changing the way the NHS is funded and gradually bringing private health care funding is i think a big no for politicians , no one wants to be the one to start down that road.

The Labour guy whose.name I forgot said he would use as much private provision as they could to sort out the current problems. I think it will arrive with or without our knowledge. At the end of the day NI is a form of medical.insurance.
You hear horror stories from America but not really from Eurooe. I think we need to get away from comparing to the worst scenario rather than the best

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Are we getting to the point where people will start questioning the NHS itself?

A journalist on Question Time(a low tax guy) said something that in itself wasnt particularly interesting but the response from others in the room was for me.

He said the NHS could no longer be described as cheap nor described as particularly good in comparisons to other countries health systems.

Normally you would get mainly booing from the audience and outrage fake or otherwise from certain politicians. What we got was a fair amount of approval.from the audience and the panel didn't bat an eyelid.

Have the problems with doctor appointments, ambulance delays, A&E waits, operations, cancer treatment, nurse shortages and more started to make people question it all.

There’s truth in that statement though.

The NHS is a wonderful *idea* but at the moment anyway, it’s a mess.

I had to go to Stepping Hill for an x ray about 18 months ago, touch wood the first and last time I’ve been into a hospital for a long time, and I was quite taken aback at frankly what a run down shithole it was. It looked like something you’d expect from an emerging economy country, not a first world country.

People like to bang on about how amazing the NHS is and how it’s the envy of the world. It’s really not.

We are living in cloud cuckoo land in this country. People like to believe we’re this global superpower and leader, that everything we have is the best. None of this is remotely true. We’re a middling nation at best.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Going to be sad to see this government inevitably prostitute itself to this Trump administration in the months the ahead.

 

[Kompany Car]

The Labour guy whose.name I forgot said he would use as much private provision as they could to sort out the current problems. I think it will arrive with or without our knowledge. At the end of the day NI is a form of medical.insurance.
You hear horror stories from America but not really from Eurooe. I think we need to get away from comparing to the worst scenario rather than the best

Well comparing it with the best in Europe, we need to start charging something at the point of access. You have to pay a nominal charge in France, Sweden and Italy. Germany has a specific health insurance charge which is on top of their other taxes. Instead we continue with NI contributions which have been reduced twice in the last few years, are only paid by working people when in reality it should be a tax for everyone based on income (i.e. just because you draw a pension should not make you exempt) and its not ring fenced like it is in Germany but instead pays for a whole host of things.

Want a world class health service, then everyone has to pay world class contributions.

 

[hilts]

Well comparing it with the best in Europe, we need to start charging something at the point of access. You have to pay a nominal charge in France, Sweden and Italy. Germany has a specific health insurance charge which is on top of their other taxes. Instead we continue with NI contributions which have been reduced twice in the last few years, are only paid by working people when in reality it should be a tax for everyone based on income (i.e. just because you draw a pension should not make you exempt) and its not ring fenced like it is in Germany but instead pays for a whole host of things.

Want a world class health service, then everyone has to pay world class contributions.

We have been somewhat restricted by the institution of the NHS and I get why. I think an adult conversation should be had, not sure that's possible. The only thing I would say is not everyone can pay world class contributions though but I'm sure they can't in Germany either.
I would be interested to know the difference in performance in an insurance based scheme and how it affects those struggling financially.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Going to be sad to see this government inevitably prostitute itself to this Trump administration in the months the ahead.

They have to be diplomatic as possible - Tories and Farage would be looking the enact whatever Trump and Musk demands. That would be a hell of a lot worse.