The Labour Government

[inbetween]

Come on now.

Growth isn’t simply about lines on a graph. It’s about the pounds in people’s pockets.

So if GDP falls on a per capita basis, it follows that the pounds in people’s pockets falls, and therefore living standards also fall.

Do you really think it’s daft to say that?

I don't think that is largely always true. Inflation is a MUCH bigger threat compared to growth. We have had relatively flat growth for many years but has wage growth really followed that? Not really. It took an inflationary crisis to change this, people felt the inflation crisis but they never really feel the fact that we haven't grown fast for years.

However, government has felt it and therefore people have felt it by the impact upon public spending. With the governments fiscal rules they can't spend more without borrowing more and the only way around that is to find savings or increase growth. Labour don't want to grow the country to put money into people's pockets.

Growth only directly threatens people in terms of job stability and unemployment but we still have one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe so it isn't a huge issue. It is a huge issue though if you want a doctors appointment and we need to find money to fund more of them.

 

[Vic]

Come on now.

Growth isn’t simply about lines on a graph. It’s about the pounds in people’s pockets.

So if GDP falls on a per capita basis, it follows that the pounds in people’s pockets falls, and therefore living standards also fall.

Do you really think it’s daft to say that?

Yes. Per capita growth could go up but if the rich are getting a bigger share of it, everyone else's living standards could be worse. But standard of living doesn't depend on just per capita growth, and when growth for December was 0.4% why suddenly is the media trying to turn it into a bad news story?

I'd go further - with an increase in population in 2024 of 0.66%, and per capita "negative growth" of 0.1% it's stupid to think that means everyone's living standards have gone down. If the population went up from 1000 to 1007, one person going long term sick would have a big impact on that person's living standards while everyone else was doing very nicely - but per capita GDP for that group would be down.

Be honest - did your standard of living go down in the last quarter?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Be honest - did your standard of living go down in the last quarter?

Yes, have you not noticed how prices in the supermarkets have increased, often on a daily/weekly basis.

Now I'm looking forward to higher fuel bills, oil prices and increased Council Tax. Have any of these things nor increased where you live?

 

[Brewster's millions]

Yes. Per capita growth could go up but if the rich are getting a bigger share of it, everyone else's living standards could be worse. But standard of living doesn't depend on just per capita growth, and when growth for December was 0.4% why suddenly is the media trying to turn it into a bad news story?

I'd go further - with an increase in population in 2024 of 0.66%, and per capita "negative growth" of 0.1% it's stupid to think that means everyone's living standards have gone down. If the population went up from 1000 to 1007, one person going long term sick would have a big impact on that person's living standards while everyone else was doing very nicely - but per capita GDP for that group would be down.

Be honest - did your standard of living go down in the last quarter?

The bit about growth not simply being a line on a graph, but the pounds in people's pockets, was actually a direct quote from Reeves in January.

If Reeves wants to make the conversation about growth wider than simply tracking headline GDP, and more about pounds in pockets, then she and Labour supporters more generally can't really complain if a very meagre rise in headline GDP fails to win them many plaudits.

Your argument about the distribution of income gains is fair enough I suppose, but very difficult to measure in real time given that 95, probably 99% of economic statistics deal with the change in headline measures, rather than the distribution of change. Any data related to distributional effects is typically only available with a lag of a year or two, if it is available at all. If you want to hypothesize about likely changes in the distribution of income, then any meaningful analysis of a GDP release would effectively be precluded.

My standard of living didn't decline over the last quarter, but my own financial situation is probably different to the majority of the country, so I wouldn't think that my situation or that of any other individual is necessarily a good guide to the economy overall. But I would argue that sustained falls or increases in GDP per capita, or indeed a long period of stagnation, would be a reasonable guide to changes in living standards across the economy over time.

Finally, your argument about focusing on the 0.4% increase in GDP in December, rather than the 0.1% increase in GDP for Q4 as a whole is a non-starter. It's simply the convention to look at quarterly movements in GDP given the volatility in the monthly series. Monthly GDP increased by 0.6% in March last year and then fell by 0.2% in April. I don't think it would have been sensible at the time to have believed that the economy was booming in March, only to then plunge into a deep recession the following month.

 

[metalblue]

Din’t really care for Reeves or many of her policies, but the faux outrage about slightly blagging her LinkedIn profile, like 99% of its members, is quite something. It’s hardly fucking Watergate is it.

Miss MB has interview at Treasury today for a role - I’ve told her to say she worked for the BoE for best part of a decade ;)

 

[Gone for a Burton]

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

 

[blueparrot]

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

Attention seeking nonsense.You don’t even understand what illegal immigration is.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Attention seeking nonsense.You don’t even understand what illegal immigration is.

Well I'm thrilled that it caught your attention...thanks.

*Illegal Immigration is what Illegal Immigrants do....Illegally !!

Hope this helps.

*There are many thousands of them, do you house any, enabling you to understand what one is and why ?

 

[Vic]

The bit about growth not simply being a line on a graph, but the pounds in people's pockets, was actually a direct quote from Reeves in January.

If Reeves wants to make the conversation about growth wider than simply tracking headline GDP, and more about pounds in pockets, then she and Labour supporters more generally can't really complain if a very meagre rise in headline GDP fails to win them many plaudits.

Your argument about the distribution of income gains is fair enough I suppose, but very difficult to measure in real time given that 95, probably 99% of economic statistics deal with the change in headline measures, rather than the distribution of change. Any data related to distributional effects is typically only available with a lag of a year or two, if it is available at all. If you want to hypothesize about likely changes in the distribution of income, then any meaningful analysis of a GDP release would effectively be precluded.

My standard of living didn't decline over the last quarter, but my own financial situation is probably different to the majority of the country, so I wouldn't think that my situation or that of any other individual is necessarily a good guide to the economy overall. But I would argue that sustained falls or increases in GDP per capita, or indeed a long period of stagnation, would be a reasonable guide to changes in living standards across the economy over time.

Finally, your argument about focusing on the 0.4% increase in GDP in December, rather than the 0.1% increase in GDP for Q4 as a whole is a non-starter. It's simply the convention to look at quarterly movements in GDP given the volatility in the monthly series. Monthly GDP increased by 0.6% in March last year and then fell by 0.2% in April. I don't think it would have been sensible at the time to have believed that the economy was booming in March, only to then plunge into a deep recession the following month.

That seems a lengthy way to say I was right that framing a slight decrease in per capita growth as "a drop in living standards" is at best dubious and at worst a distortion.

 

[Vic]

Yes, have you not noticed how prices in the supermarkets have increased, often on a daily/weekly basis.

Now I'm looking forward to higher fuel bills, oil prices and increased Council Tax. Have any of these things nor increased where you live?

Wages to rise at above-inflation rates, report finds

Wages are expected to increase at rates higher than inflation for the first time since before the pandemic, new data finds.

www.personneltoday.com

 

[blueparrot]

Well I'm thrilled that it caught your attention...thanks.

*Illegal Immigration is what Illegal Immigrants do....Illegally !!

Hope this helps.

*There are many thousands of them, do you house any, enabling you to understand what one is and why ?

Are there how would you know, the whole thing with illegal immigrants is we don’t know they are here where they are and how they got here . Well many are on expired visas and overstayed. Other than that they could be anywhere with no record of them ever arriving.
No I don’t house one ,don’t know of any.
However you seem to think you know where they are and where and when they are arriving, maybe you could report them.

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Attention seeking nonsense.You don’t even understand what illegal immigration is.

Well I'm thrilled that it caught your attention...thanks.

*Illegal Immigration is what Illegal Immigrants do....Illegally !!

Hope this helps.

*There are many thousands of them, do you house any, enabling you to understand what one is and why ?

Are there how would you know, the whole thing with illegal immigrants is we don’t know they are here where they are and how they got here . Well many are on expired visas and overstayed. Other than that they could be anywhere with no record of them ever arriving.
No I don’t house one ,don’t know of any.
However you seem to think you know where they are and where and when they are arriving, maybe you could report them.

Your assumption is wildly wide of the mark.

Enjoy the game tomorrow !!

 

[117 M34]

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

How do you propose we stop them when on a beach of a foreign country?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Are there how would you know, the whole thing with illegal immigrants is we don’t know they are here where they are and how they got here . Well many are on expired visas and overstayed. Other than that they could be anywhere with no record of them ever arriving.
No I don’t house one ,don’t know of any.
However you seem to think you know where they are and where and when they are arriving, maybe you could report them.

Not worth the effort, mate.

 

[stonerblue]

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

No it's not. Just your ranting has been heard already

 

[stonerblue]

Fu

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

Fuckng bollox.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The thread has lost focus.

Illegal immigration must be stopped at source, en route, or on the beaches.

Illegals must be deported, they are here ILLEGALLY !!

Overall immigration must be reduced and thereafter, controlled buy an 'Australian' style policy.

We have become the dumping ground for male trash in fashion gear with no identity but mobile phones.

The country cannot cope,which is why your tax pounds cannot satisfactorily fund schools, health care, prisons,law & order never mind border control !!

Please emigrate to the middle east all year round.

We don't need old farts full of bigotry who don't have qualms about ripping off city fans looking for spare tickets.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Watched “send them back” on channel 4 last night ….. changed the minds of some people who were totally anti immigrants and boat crossings etc

The people trying to escape war etc or make a better life are doing what any of us would do . They’re not all criminals and rapists or terrorists.

Heartbreaking to watch.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/go-back-to-where-you-came-from

 

[Gone for a Burton]

Please emigrate to the middle east all year round.

We don't need old farts full of bigotry who don't have qualms about ripping off city fans looking for spare tickets.

If I did I wouldn't do so illegally, but thanks for your interest and consideration anyway.

As for your other comment, you attention seeking ****, please feel free to contact Tim of the Oak for his response to your shit and re post it on here.

Failing that, I'll be in the Railway Hotel tomorrow twixt 1pm/2.15pm
and I'll be very happy to put you right face to face.......and accept your apology !!

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

If I did I wouldn't do so illegally, but thanks for your interest and consideration anyway.

As for your other comment, you attention seeking ****, please feel free to contact Tim of the Oak for his response to your shit and re post it on here.

Failing that, I'll be in the Railway Hotel tomorrow twixt 1pm/2.15pm
and I'll be very happy to put you right face to face.......and accept your apology !!

Not really arsed you bigoted old bore.