The Monarchy

[Damocles]

It is true that a lot of people get sneered at for their choice of viewing/reading matter, mostly by people who think they are morally and intellectually superior to them, so they know better. It usually stems from some sort of inate inferiority complex that was imbued sometime in their youth, that makes them want to constantly voice their superiority as a salve to this. I had a mate at school who ended up as Head statistician for the Post Office and then a similar position at the World Health Organisation, after a glittering term at Oxford.
He was almost childlike in his habits, however, and his favourite pastimes were getting as pissed and stoned as possible, only ever read comics, never a paper, had no interest in politics and was incredibly naive in relationships.
I will read the Mirror, a paper now at odds with my political views, but a paper I have a fondness for due to it being in our house every day when I was a kid, it was the working man's paper of choice, and still has that undercurrent of fairness and balance in it's editorials. I'll also read the Sun, Mail, Guardian, (only for sport, this is not otherwise for me). Plenty of folk love X factor and Strictly, not me, but all of them are not cretins because of this.

In my experience, the people with the brightest minds also have the largest ability to be juvenile and silly.

There was a guy who I went to college with on my first degree who was really bright, not Newton or Einstein but had that ability to just pick things up easily. He never got his degree and decided to work in a butchers instead because he enjoyed the banter with the regular customers.

My old man has read the Daily Mail since he was a '20-something and broke' air con engineer who is heavily pro-union and old socialism. Now he owns several homes and has his kid in a fee paying private school and he still reads it along with the Manchester Evening News and the Mirror in the Working Men's Club he goes to and sits on the committee of.

It's like the guys who carry Financial Times under their arms but never actually read them.

There's a stupidity on relying on stereotypes as a lens through which to view the world as most of them only broadly hold true in sets of millions, and anybody trying to make a commonality in sets of millions needs to rethink their approach

 

[Mike N]

Without the monarchy we'd have to have an elected head of state. We'd end up with a self serving toe rag like Tony Blair or Simon Cowell. The monarchy is the best option, brings millions into the country as well.

Lol. I thought this comment rang a bell. You posted it in reply to my point in the Richard 111 thread, more than a week ago!

Is it your intention to say the same thing about Blair and Cowell every time someone says kings and queens should be a thing of the past?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

All the Scandinavian countries have monarchies, plus Belgium, Holland, Spain, Monaco. I think that although on the surface archaic, they contribute greatly to the cohesion and stability of a state, the cost is superficial, and the role of head of state being apolitical has benefits.
On a more frivolous note what would all the childrens' authors and toy makers do if royalty didn't exist?

'Cinderella waited in moist anticipation, as the handsome son of the communist dictator, took her hand and directed her towards the peoples coach.'

'Yes, my little daughter of a fascist madman, of course you can have a Barbie doll.'

Prince and Princess does have a more romantic ring to it.

 

[the god Gerry Gow]

Never understood the pro monarchy argument that "they bring in a lot of tourism"

Firstly, do countries without a monarchy not have tourists
Secondly, do we not have a tourist industry besides the monarchy
Thirdly, just imagine where you could go and what you could see as a tourist if every royal residence was truly opened up

 

[johnnytapia]

Our cultural output is indeed outstanding - especially when placed in the context of the truly uninformed, disinterested nation we’ve become. I think you conflate smarter with having qualifications.

I conflate standard of education with general intelligence over a huge set like populations of countries yes. It a stunningly dim argument that they don't correlate that isn't supported by studies nor logic so we'll skip that one.

Standard of education = general intelligence. Really? I think you know that’s just bollocks.

Do you genuinely believe we’re turning out more brilliant scientists, engineers, pioneers, biologists, chemists, mathematicians than say, 20/30/50 years ago?

I think the idea of who is more brilliant than who is an impossible question, but as somebody who considers himself well versed in academia in terms of the sciences then I'd say that we're probably turning out more productive scientists now than at any point in the history of the country. I'm basing this just on the huge wealth of research, experimentation and discovery made by British scientists over the past 10 or 20 years.

“I think the idea of who is more brilliant is an impossible question” - you then go on to try and answer it - brilliant! And how about that lovely caveat “I’d say that we’re probably turning out...” or, to paraphrase, “I don’t actually know”.

As for the second best education system in Europe - that is arrant nonsense. Scandanavia alone walks head and shoulders above us. And no, I don’t need PISA test results to show that.

Ah, you're one of those extremely clever people who "just knows" about things unlike those stupid scientists that spend thousands of hours on collating data and attempting some form of analysis on them. We're actually having an issue with this whole dark matter thing if you'd like to save us all some time and just let us know what it is instead of again having to draw another round of funding.

Last set of PISA test results, UK was 26th and erm, well, there were 14 European countries that did better than the UK. Maybe your studies into dark matter could explain how that makes the UK the second best in Europe…

I’ve worked in schools, colleges and universities across Europe and the evidence I’ve seen and experienced informs my “rhetoric”. Unfortunately I didn’t talk to any scientists in their quest for quantitative or qualitative data that would help ascertain the varying standards of those institues. Call it intuition, call it common sense, I actually spoke to fellow teachers, professors and students. Their view: The UK’s education system is nothing special.

We’re a nation that loves the utter inane drivel served up by tabloids, that’s led, mouths agape, into texting who should come out of the fucking jungle. And it’s the reason we’ll have a monarchy until The Sun decides it’s time for its “readers” to be told otherwise.

We're a species that enjoys entertainment as it keeps the mind busy. We also enjoy many different facets of the tabloid media from its relative brevity to its slight salaciousness, and specifically its humour and of course the information packed therein. Most of these for quite interesting reasons that helped us along our evolutionary or social path and big marketing operations are extremely good at presenting things in a format designed to be psychologically seductive to humans.

Maybe I’m missing out on something here and I should allow the big marketeers to seduce my mind. All those years of thinking The Sun, Sport, Star etc were jam-packed full of drivel, lies and vile hatred for anything that didn’t meet their own narrow view of life. Or maybe I’ll stick to having a mind of my own thanks.

As I tried to say previously, do you know what is the immediately obvious trait displayed by all people who lack education and intelligence? Lack of critical analysis skills. In addition to lack of specificity and lack of appreciation for the wider complexities of an issue which resorts to stereotype.

My University Professor was a huge fan of those Pop Idol shows and he's amongst the smartest people who I've ever had the fortune of debating a point with. I've read The Sun plenty of times and my favourite paper to follow on Twitter is the Sunday Sport, and you'll see me regularly retweeting their stories.

Your stereotypes and ill-informed rhetoric has no place here. You should write a blog.

My rhetoric is informed from a wide variety of sources and is underpinned by evidence. We’ve become increasingly averse to broadening our knowledge; we want easy answers; we’re led, child-like, into being told what’s good for us. And, coming back to the original question on the thread, it’s that lack of questioning, that lack of reading aound an issue that will see the monarchy survive. Sadly.

 

[Damocles]

My rhetoric is informed from a wide variety of sources and is underpinned by evidence. We’ve become increasingly averse to broadening our knowledge; we want easy answers; we’re led, child-like, into being told what’s good for us..

I'd love to see the wide variety of sources and evidence that support these conclusions.

 

[johnnytapia]

My rhetoric is informed from a wide variety of sources and is underpinned by evidence. We’ve become increasingly averse to broadening our knowledge; we want easy answers; we’re led, child-like, into being told what’s good for us..

I'd love to see the wide variety of sources and evidence that support these conclusions.

Without getting off topic (which is where this tit for tat was heading) if you look at the uptake at GCSE/A Level and beyond for subjects such as The Classics, foreign languages, philosophy, history, they’ve been in sharp decline for several years. It’s mainly due to the way subjects are now weighted at GCSE level - if it’s not part of the government’s all so important 5 GCSE A-C, including Maths and English, it’s very likely to bite the dust, so to speak. This means that pupils are driven to what will see the school succeed in the league tables. Universities are now equally under absurd pressure to provide data for how many of their courses lead to employment, ergo, the so-called “soft” courses, which won’t necessarily lead to immediate work are culled.

This, in turn, leads to pupils who are being taught courses that will get them a job, but which won’t nurture their ability to critically debate. Part of my languages degree was spent discussing, analysing and debating various aspects of French and German history, politics and economics. This often led into long, coffee-fuelled nights of discussions about our French/German/UK/World society. We were actively encouraged by our professors to have these long, often unfinished conversations. And they played an integral part in those conversations. Now, universities are increasingly little more than module ticking, money driven institutions. There are exceptions - we have some of the world’s greatest universities. But, on the whole, we’re a society that’s being increasingly pigeon-holed and told what we need to do and what we need to get from life.

Taken at an even younger level, my current Year 6 pupils are doing very little at the moment other than maths, reading and writing - it’ll get them through their SATs, it’ll ensure my school keeps its head above the Ofsted parapet - but it’s not the rounded, questioning education I want to give.

Have a read of Frank Furedi's book “where have all the intellectuals gone?” - he’s not my cup of tea politically, but he makes some excellent points about where we’re heading, intellectually, and the impact it’s having and the impact it’s likely to have. Which, in a very roundabout way, leads me to my point on the monarchy!

 

[East Level 2]

The monarchy is ridiculous but might be better than President Blair or Cameron.
What really pisses me off is that we are supposed to bow or curtsey when meeting them. What the flying fuck have they ever done that demands such demeaning action? Other than get born into a life of luxury.
Keep the freeloaders by all means, but don't pretend they are better than the rest of us.
"Long to reign over us"? A subject of her majesty? Piss right off and keep on pissing.

 

[bluemanc]

The Monarchy is my tradition culture & heritage.
Only thing i want rid of is politics,get rid of every MP & put best people in best jobs.
Fuck the house of frauds off aswell.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The Monarchy is my tradition culture & heritage.
Only thing i want rid of is politics,get rid of every MP & put best people in best jobs.
Fuck the house of frauds off aswell.

Something to be said for this. The armed forces pledge allegiance to the monarchy, not parliament, a hangover from the reformation, I think.
Anyway, it would be joy indeed to see the Household Cavalry clattering through parliament at PMQ's slicing every one of the mendacious twats to ribbons with sabres.