The Rags potential demise ... and costs.

[marco]

the demise does not happen overnight you dont suddenly wake up one morning and its over unless ofcourse the receivers are in, its a slow slow process in the case of and lets be honest a big club such as man united, the first indication that its going tits up are bizare results one week a handsome win followed up by another then boom a shocker, this takes us way back to the 1-6 because prior to that game and following they had some decent results, then the pattern goes quite untill results beome more bizare fast forward to this season and united are not really a team you would back anymore that dead cert is no more like a horse with the added weights its not working also to mention the man at the helm has jumped ship and the club has installed a crackpot on the cheap which indicates the lack of funds, backing this up there is a lack of transfer activity ok they spent 27 million on a player who looks like he'd be more at home in the jackson five but its small cash for one of the worlds top clubs, it all points to financial problems things that have not even been released things that the glaziers have locked away my guess is there in very serious dificulties a situation that has now got to take its course a bit like the saying 'the point of no return', what will back this up is when they don't sack moyes and stick with him they simply cant pay him off which would be in the region of 25 million further to that they couldnt settle the contract on another TOP manager plus pay him the going rate so to change managers at this stage could cost 50 million plus, further to this they wont be buying in the window yes they will name targets but we are wise to the the same old bullshit this followed up at end of season where they may buy has beens or under 21 material, enjoy it guys but it will carry on for a couple of years yet before it even hits there hardcore fans what is going on

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

As much as I'd love them to have to sell up anything of value and groundshare with Sale Sharks & Salford Reds, it isn't going to happen now.

There was a time when they could have gone under but either by luck, clever management or a combination, the Glazers should now be in a position to settle any of their personal debt from the takeover and getting to the point where the rags could be debt free in the next 3-4 years.

Was talking to a rag about their potential demise( in the only way you can actually talk to one). I was trying to recall a post I'm fairly sure you made, about the shares from the IPO being returned at a reduced rate if they fail to make the Champs league for 2 consecutive years.

Any chance you could explain that to me.

Cheers.

It wasn't the IPO but the bond issue in 2010. Essentially they borrowed £500m off investors for 7 yrs at a fixed rate of interest, with the bonds due to be redeemed (repaid) in 2017. One of the conditions of the issue iirc was that investors had the right to demand immediate repayment if they failed to qualify for the CL 2 years running or for two out of three years (can't remember which now).

 

[ohfk]

As much as I'd love them to have to sell up anything of value and groundshare with Sale Sharks & Salford Reds, it isn't going to happen now.

There was a time when they could have gone under but either by luck, clever management or a combination, the Glazers should now be in a position to settle any of their personal debt from the takeover and getting to the point where the rags could be debt free in the next 3-4 years.

Was talking to a rag about their potential demise( in the only way you can actually talk to one). I was trying to recall a post I'm fairly sure you made, about the shares from the IPO being returned at a reduced rate if they fail to make the Champs league for 2 consecutive years.

Any chance you could explain that to me.

Cheers.

It wasn't the IPO but the bond issue in 2010. Essentially they borrowed £500m off investors for 7 yrs at a fixed rate of interest, with the bonds due to be redeemed (repaid) in 2017. One of the conditions of the issue iirc was that investors had the right to demand immediate repayment if they failed to qualify for the CL 2 years running or for two out of three years (can't remember which now).

Brilliant, thank you for that. I'll try and dig in to it now I know where to start looking.

Cheers

 

[Skashion]

The Glazers have weathered the storm sadly, and pulled out some very impressive commercial deals. The best thing for us is that a) the Glazers remain in charge b) ditto Moyes.

 

[Bluemoon115]

The Glazers have weathered the storm sadly, and pulled out some very impressive commercial deals. The best thing for us is that a) the Glazers remain in charge b) ditto Moyes.

I'm not sure if I understood properly, but I'm sure one of our financial experts (PB maybe) suggested that it's more cost effective for the Glaziers to have a team designed to finish 4th, than a team to challenge for the title.

Which would be an acceptable situation.

 

[sir baconface]

the demise does not happen overnight you dont suddenly wake up one morning and its over unless ofcourse the receivers are in, its a slow slow process in the case of and lets be honest a big club such as man united, the first indication that its going tits up are bizare results one week a handsome win followed up by another then boom a shocker, this takes us way back to the 1-6 because prior to that game and following they had some decent results, then the pattern goes quite untill results beome more bizare fast forward to this season and united are not really a team you would back anymore that dead cert is no more like a horse with the added weights its not working also to mention the man at the helm has jumped ship and the club has installed a crackpot on the cheap which indicates the lack of funds, backing this up there is a lack of transfer activity ok they spent 27 million on a player who looks like he'd be more at home in the jackson five but its small cash for one of the worlds top clubs, it all points to financial problems things that have not even been released things that the glaziers have locked away my guess is there in very serious dificulties a situation that has now got to take its course a bit like the saying 'the point of no return', what will back this up is when they don't sack moyes and stick with him they simply cant pay him off which would be in the region of 25 million further to that they couldnt settle the contract on another TOP manager plus pay him the going rate so to change managers at this stage could cost 50 million plus, further to this they wont be buying in the window yes they will name targets but we are wise to the the same old bullshit this followed up at end of season where they may buy has beens or under 21 material, enjoy it guys but it will carry on for a couple of years yet before it even hits there hardcore fans what is going on

Not convinced they have financial problems. I think it more likely the Glazers have pegged expenditure to the minimum they thought necessary. To a point it paid off; for example the addition of RVP was enough to regain the title.

Hopefully they have under-estimated the investment requirement. Camel, Giggs, Vidic and Evra are past their sell-by dates. Jones, Smalling, Welbeck and Cleverley may be OK but not world-beaters. Did Bacon take his eye off the ball in his last two or three years? The reason I ask is because the thing he previously excelled at was refreshing and rebuilding the evil dynasty.

All of a sudden the flaws are exposed and - as we know - heavy investment doesn't necessarily bring immediate results.

They are a "massive" machine though and I see this as a dip rather than their demise. I hope I am wrong!

 

[samharris]

Yes I know we have a separate thread for all things Rag based but under the circumstances I felt this may warrant a different thread,looking at whats happened to both Leeds and Portsmouth over the last few years could the potential happen at Old Trafford.
Yes, both of the above mentioned teams,were mismanaged off the field,which lead to the horrendous demise and fall into an abyss that is so deep Portsmouth could end up as a non league club.
Having read some of the posts on RagCafe,one issue crops up regularly with the hordes,money.Failing to get into the CL position at the end of the season,not only becomes a financial worry for them,but how do they then attract top quality players,who only seem to move from club to club where this is on offer ?
I accept that its highly unlikely but is it a possibility, that this could then see the wheels come off at full speed,leading to a drop in attendances,tv rights,commercial business and sponsorship.It only takes (I assume) two seasons away from the CL and that would become a catastrophic but unfortunate start of one large implosion.
I suppose I can but dream,but I would love to see this team,its club and supporters go through years of living in the shadow of their main rivals,as we had done for decades.

its not pronounced 'potential' its pronounced 'imminent'. :)<br /><br />-- Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:19 pm --<br /><br />

I wouldn't go dancing on their grave just yet.

Owners wont spend!!
Manager is over his head!!
players getting pensions!!
Peasants revolting!!
Getting snubbed for fun!!




Where do I put my handbag??

 

[justsomeone]

I think once a team drops out of the top 4, it's hard to get back in. I think they can recover, but they will have to make smart moves. Liverpool dropped out of the top 4 in 2010 and they have been unable to return. Suarez was a good investment for them though and it looks like it's paying off. I don't think United will be able to do that though. They're too arrogant to play anything other than Fergie-ball which is seriously outdated. Football has changed.

 

[citytill1die84]

Way to early to rite em off. They'll finish top 4 they'll buy another decent midfielder in Jan.

 

[jrb]

They currently have 34 sponsors on their website.

I know for a fact through various websites that they have many more, which are not listed as official sponsors on their website.

Basically they have been around the World and back signing up obscure sponsors throughout 2013

They've probably got in the region of 40-50 sponsors.

At the end of the day it brings in money, but to me it's a sign of desperation. No doubt most of these are being signed up to finance/cover the loans, without any real other benefit to the club other than that.

Put it this way. The likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, City, etc could do likewise, but choose not to.