The Scottish Politics thread

[Gabriel]

Mhairi Black next please.

More likely to be Stephen Flynn.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

No one would elect her down here.

No, but she could've been great for Scottish labour.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

No, but she could've been great for Scottish labour.

Why would she represent them when she wants independence?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Why would she represent them when she wants independence?

Fair enough, but I actually think there are quite a few capable SNP MPs that may of been labour had this govt since 2010 treated those north of the border (and outside London tbh) with more respect and fairness. The SNP have always been bubbling away, but the last decade of Tory rule has brought things to a head (imho)

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Fair enough, but I actually think there are quite a few capable SNP MPs that may of been labour had this govt since 2010 treated those north of the border (and outside London tbh) with more respect and fairness. The SNP have always been bubbling away, but the last decade of Tory rule has brought things to a head (imho)

I don’t disagree with you. Labour are finished up there though and Mhairi is too smart to waste her talents with them.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens as and when/if independence is achieved. The SNP become obsolete and new parties will be born.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I don’t disagree with you. Labour are finished up there though and Mhairi is too smart to waste her talents with them.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens as and when/if independence is achieved. The SNP become obsolete and new parties will be born.

Yes, I know it irritates some folk if I refer to the SNP as a single issue party like ukip, but by framing the next GE as a referendum they do risk putting all their eggs in one basket. I think they would get at least a term in power on the back of winning independence, but as with Churchill post-war the memory of their heroic leadership will be short lived if they get domestic governance wrong.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Yes, I know it irritates some folk if I refer to the SNP as a single issue party like ukip, but by framing the next GE as a referendum they do risk putting all their eggs in one basket. I think they would get at least a term in power on the back of winning independence, but as with Churchill post-war the memory of their heroic leadership will be short lived if they get domestic governance wrong.

Yeah, the independence issue ties a lot of differing opinions together whilst it is THE issue.

Then, as you say, they might get another term, depending on when it happened in the GE cycle and then the SNP fragments.

 

[Coatigan]

I don’t disagree with you. Labour are finished up there though and Mhairi is too smart to waste her talents with them.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens as and when/if independence is achieved. The SNP become obsolete and new parties will be born.

There is every chance they would become obsolete. It is also likely those voting for them as a seen means to an end will no longer have any need to vote for them. But on the other hand, the three union offshoot parties will also become totally obsolete. So who would fill the void, hard to say. They'd almost all need to redefine themselves, and as you mention new parties may well emerge. The only noatable difference there is the Greens, who unlike the mainstream parties have a more meaningful presence in Scotland than elsewhwre, and also have different stances specific to Scotland. I could see them replacing a lot of the SNP and Labour seats, at least initially. If obviously it were ever to get that far.

 

[bluethrunthru]

shown up - embarrassing

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

What do our Scottish friends think of Stephen Flynn? Sounds like there may have been some cloak and dagger stuff to get rid of blackford and tbh I know nothing about Flynn. Excited to see Mhairi as his deputy which hopefully means we'll hear her regularly in Westminster - she'll scare a few in the govt I'm sure.

 

[Gabriel]

What do our Scottish friends think of Stephen Flynn? Sounds like there may have been some cloak and dagger stuff to get rid of blackford and tbh I know nothing about Flynn. Excited to see Mhairi as his deputy which hopefully means we'll hear her regularly in Westminster - she'll scare a few in the govt I'm sure.

Younger, more abrasive than Blackford and with Black in tandem it keeps an East Coast/West Coast balance.

 

[Coatigan]

What do our Scottish friends think of Stephen Flynn? Sounds like there may have been some cloak and dagger stuff to get rid of blackford and tbh I know nothing about Flynn. Excited to see Mhairi as his deputy which hopefully means we'll hear her regularly in Westminster - she'll scare a few in the govt I'm sure.

Doubt the script will change.

 

[Gabriel]

Doubt the script will change.

The underlying message will remain the same, true, but I suspect the Westminster MPs are less than happy about the idea of having the next General Election used as a de facto referendum. What they can do about that within Westminster remains to be seen.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The underlying message will remain the same, true, but I suspect the Westminster MPs are less than happy about the idea of having the next General Election used as a de facto referendum. What they can do about that within Westminster remains to be seen.

I doubt that bothers them too much. When the SNP undoubtedly win with a big majority north of the border which they will whatever, their declaring the GE a de facto referendum just allows them to spin the result as a 'win' for independence after it effectively got legally stuck last month. When the chips are down it's just a way of banging the independence drum for an internal audience - it doesn't bring it any closer in practical terms.
It shores them up in the face of domestic issues and the legal ruling that unless challenged casts them as a party of protest with existential issues. The fact is the GE is an opportunity for the population to choose it's govt and nothing more than that, although as a single issue party I do agree that a resounding ge victory would give the SNP a resounding mandate to continue pursuing independence.

 

[Gabriel]

I doubt that bothers them too much. When the SNP undoubtedly win with a big majority north of the border which they will whatever, their declaring the GE a de facto referendum just allows them to spin the result as a 'win' for independence after it effectively got legally stuck last month. When the chips are down it's just a way of banging the independence drum for an internal audience - it doesn't bring it any closer in practical terms.
It shores them up in the face of domestic issues and the legal ruling that unless challenged casts them as a party of protest with existential issues. The fact is the GE is an opportunity for the population to choose it's govt and nothing more than that, although as a single issue party I do agree that a resounding ge victory would give the SNP a resounding mandate to continue pursuing independence.

From reading the Scottish newspapers, there seems to be an undercurrent amongst MPs who are unhappy about the idea. Of course, that is perfectly understandable. After all, if the general election becomes a de facto referendum, then some of those Westminster MPs risk losing their seats.

 

[Coatigan]

I doubt that bothers them too much. When the SNP undoubtedly win with a big majority north of the border which they will whatever, their declaring the GE a de facto referendum just allows them to spin the result as a 'win' for independence after it effectively got legally stuck last month. When the chips are down it's just a way of banging the independence drum for an internal audience - it doesn't bring it any closer in practical terms.
It shores them up in the face of domestic issues and the legal ruling that unless challenged casts them as a party of protest with existential issues. The fact is the GE is an opportunity for the population to choose it's govt and nothing more than that, although as a single issue party I do agree that a resounding ge victory would give the SNP a resounding mandate to continue pursuing independence.

Saved me typing out a response. Apart from the last point, think the same re GE being used as an attempt at a referendum. Pointless, and a bit daft.

 

[Coatigan]

The underlying message will remain the same, true, but I suspect the Westminster MPs are less than happy about the idea of having the next General Election used as a de facto referendum. What they can do about that within Westminster remains to be seen.

By Westminster MPs, I'm assuning you are including the SNP ones? That's the only way I can see that point making sense, myself.

 

[Gabriel]

By Westminster MPs, I'm assuning you are including the SNP ones? That's the only way I can see that point making sense, myself.

Yes.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Yet more dodgy going-ons from the SNP with the news of the 100k loan from Mr Murrell, the same Mr Murrell who of course only lets certain people see the party accounts, and who seemingly forgot about declaring the loan as well. Despite Mr and Mrs having spent 20-plus years dealing with donations and doubtless knowing the rules inside out. All while the investigation over the ring fenced, ‘missing’ 600k goes on.

Something definitely not right there. Why did he need to put an undeclared 100k in when the party appears to have had reserves of well over half a million quid in the bank?

We can talk about cash flow and so on, but I doubt the reserve would all have been locked up in time deposit accounts which they couldn’t access, as surely that would defeat the object of having a reserve in the first place. Was there an item of expenditure that he preferred not to be met by the party’s own cash, so as to limit the fallout for Mrs Murrell when it’s discovered later on? Seems very odd to me. Or are they really just utterly shit at running their party’s finances, such that the overdraft maxed out, which points to a broader level of incompetence in light of the 600k question?

I know it’s the reverse of the sort of shit Johnson used to get involved in, i.e. Murrell putting money in rather than taking it out, but there’s something not right about all of this and the press are giving them another easy ride by the looks of it.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Yet more dodgy going-ons from the SNP with the news of the 100k loan from Mr Murrell, the same Mr Murrell who of course only lets certain people see the party accounts, and who seemingly forgot about declaring the loan as well. Despite Mr and Mrs having spent 20-plus years dealing with donations and doubtless knowing the rules inside out. All while the investigation over the ring fenced, ‘missing’ 600k goes on.

Something definitely not right there. Why did he need to put an undeclared 100k in when the party appears to have had reserves of well over half a million quid in the bank?

We can talk about cash flow and so on, but I doubt the reserve would all have been locked up in time deposit accounts which they couldn’t access, as surely that would defeat the object of having a reserve in the first place. Was there an item of expenditure that he preferred not to be met by the party’s own cash, so as to limit the fallout for Mrs Murrell when it’s discovered later on? Seems very odd to me. Or are they really just utterly shit at running their party’s finances, such that the overdraft maxed out, which points to a broader level of incompetence in light of the 600k question?

I know it’s the reverse of the sort of shit Johnson used to get involved in, i.e. Murrell putting money in rather than taking it out, but there’s something not right about all of this and the press are giving them another easy ride by the looks of it.

Tbh mate, although you have a point compared to the level of day to day corruption within the Westminster Tory govt this is loose change. The PPE thing alone funneled enough money into the pockets of their rich friends to cover the demands of the current striking workers, and Boris has individually probably got away with more than the entire amount you quote re the SNP!