The Scottish Politics thread

[west didsblue]

We have the opportunity to harness our renewable energy to the max and with still plenty of oil. A banking sector that will grow, fisheries, farming, manufacturing, R&D, Whisky, we will be absolutely fine. We are completely fucked right now and endless Tory pricks running the gaff means that ain’t going to change. We sell 80% of our electricity to England. With infrastructure investment that can be sold to Europe decreasing its dependency on Russian gas. We are a going concern if free to run it. Right now our future is just a concern. We will be hunky dory. You might not hence why the establishment does all it can to keep us. One day, if we vote Indy , this will become apparent. And you can take that to any Bank you wish.

Having another English speaking (albeit barely intelligible) country in the EU gives Scotland an opportunity to attract a share of the financial and professional services sectors that currently go to Ireland. The fact that Scotland will also have a land border with quite a large market in England/Wales will also encourage inward investment. I can also see some UK based companies moving some operations north as I suspect it's easier and cheaper than moving to the EU. It's certainly not the case that they can't manage by themselves without support from Westminster.

 

[Magicpole]

Having another English speaking (albeit barely intelligible) country in the EU gives Scotland an opportunity to attract a share of the financial and professional services sectors that currently go to Ireland. The fact that Scotland will also have a land border with quite a large market in England/Wales will also encourage inward investment. I can also see some UK based companies moving some operations north as I suspect it's easier and cheaper than moving to the EU. It's certainly not the case that they can't manage by themselves without support from Westminster.

Exactly.

 

[Shadz69]

I recognised that point and expanded to show where we actually are and the stifled potential we face.

I think Scotland have huge potential to grow in all areas.
For decades the chronic underfunding of the place was terrible, almost like trying to drive workers south.
They will also have the experience to know winning the hearts and minds of the different peoples of EU members can be one of the best drivers to join.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Stepping away from the cycle on here for a little bit, what are people's genuine feelings on how this will go?

Not interested in the arguements, the political or logical views etc, that will be said and a few times over. I am more curious about what people feel will happen, both here and exposed to it and those from a distance reading the guardians expresses etc. Pure gut feelings, really.

I think the campaign would get ugly.
Especially if it looks like the leave vote might win. I don’t think you’ll be allowed leave without a concerted smear effort from the media.

That’s my gut feeling.

 

[Saddleworth2]

This is the point. The political course appears to be following very similar ground to Brexit next they’ll talk of oven ready deals and how everything will be oh so easy. In that book (I like the name btw) they talk much of oil revenues and the past - it’s sentimental clap trap - there is no honest conversation about how they’ll monetise that going forward, what the current contracts are and legally how they can impose a tax etc on them - I’m not saying they can’t as I’m not privy to the contracts. As @west didsblue says it’ll be done a couple of months before the vote (should they get one) … that says to me they have no plan that stands up to scrutiny, you can win the minds of voters years in advance, it’s not like bidding for something on eBay.

All I’ll say is that the people of Scotland should pay close attention and learn from the mistakes of the Brexit vote - we didn’t have a plan that couldn’t have been scribbled on the back of a fag packet. Demand a more details analysis of how it will all work from your politicians. The big questions I’d want to know, in detail, is how are we going to pay for everything (from oil - remember prices go down as well as up so revenue is unstable, taxes and EU subsidies?), what’s the cost going to be to trade with rest of UK (ie 60% of scotland’s exports) and how much will we lose in exports there. Then I’d want to know how will border work between Scotland and rest of UK (hard or soft) and plans for our own currency. Can it be done? Sure - no reason to think it can’t but that’s a lot of shit to really explain, if you think you can get all them answers - not speculation in the papers etc, but the SNPs plan - in a couple of months before the vote than you’re not being honest with yourself and the SNP are not being honest with you.

You keep banging on about no plan which is making you look daft. There was a plan and there has been extensive work since. Check out this that was sponsored by Sturgeon https://www.sustainablegrowthcommission.scot/report

the Scottish populace are not daft. They will want it set out clearly. The reason they said no last time is that the plan failed to convince them. The same might happen this time round. There will be a plan and they know it better be bloody well credible if they are going to win Indy ref 2.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think that it will be close and that to win Sturgeon has to play the game of her life. How she frames the route to independence so it convinces Scots that it isn’t another Brexit is critical.
The cautious Scot with deep pockets and short arms is still very much alive and well and they will need convinced. I think how Sturgeon represents the future ‘status quo’ will also be vitally important.
if we don’t vote yes this time then we are completely fucked and deserve everything we get shove onto us by the Tories.
vote Labour in Scotland I hear someone cry. That abject coward can’t even bring himself to say the S M would be a good thing for the U.K. jeez I feel so sorry for English voters.

 

[Gabriel]

I think that it will be close and that to win Sturgeon has to play the game of her life. How she frames the route to independence so it convinces Scots that it isn’t another Brexit is critical.
The cautious Scot with deep pockets and short arms is still very much alive and well and they will need convinced. I think how Sturgeon represents the future ‘status quo’ will also be vitally important.
if we don’t vote yes this time then we are completely fucked and deserve everything we get shove onto us by the Tories.
vote Labour in Scotland I hear someone cry. That abject coward can’t even bring himself to say the S M would be a good thing for the U.K. jeez I feel so sorry for English voters.

If the next vote is even closer yet still a no, it will only lead to more of the same: Westminster recognizes that it’s only a matter of when, not if, so it will only slowly choke off the investment further and prepare England for the inevitable break up. Those who vote ‘No’ ought to realise that by now, assuming they’ve finished reading ‘The Pledge’.

 

[Koniec]

Stepping away from the cycle on here for a little bit, what are people's genuine feelings on how this will go?

Not interested in the arguements, the political or logical views etc, that will be said and a few times over. I am more curious about what people feel will happen, both here and exposed to it and those from a distance reading the guardians expresses etc. Pure gut feelings, really.

I have a feeling that if Scotland even votes for Independence, and before the break away gets underway therell be violence. The OO in past have threatened to take up arms to return Scotland to the union if there is Independence, there was plenty of attacks in Glasgow night of last vote by Unionist thugs (from both sides of border). My fear is it could get very ugly and it will come from the Unionists, and will be fuelled in part from Norn Iron. Ulster could also descend back into its old ways.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I have a feeling that if Scotland even votes for Independence, and before the break away gets underway therell be violence. The OO in past have threatened to take up arms to return Scotland to the union if there is Independence, there was plenty of attacks in Glasgow night of last vote by Unionist thugs (from both sides of border). My fear is it could get very ugly and it will come from the Unionists, and will be fuelled in part from Norn Iron. Ulster could also descend back into its old ways.

I fear a similar scenario.
I don’t however know the feelings on the ground in the likes of Glasgow, but a quick glance at the history of the setting up of NI and you can see how it was a unionist in-acceptance of the Democratic vote and threat of a brutal civil war, backed by the Tories that set Ireland on the road to splitting.

Is it inconceivable that in this day and age, similar could happen in Scotland?
I hope not.

 

[Koniec]

I fear a similar scenario.
I don’t however know the feelings on the ground in the likes of Glasgow, but a quick glance at the history of the setting up of NI and you can see how it was a unionist in-acceptance of the Democratic vote and threat of a brutal civil war, backed by the Tories that set Ireland on the road to splitting.

Is it inconceivable that in this day and age, similar could happen in Scotland?
I hope so.

The most hard core Unionists will have access to weapons, it’s obvious where from. I’m not talking levels of violence a la the Balkans. But I can see ugly incidents happening. British Nationalism does seem to have a violent underbelly.