The Scottish Politics thread

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There are Catalan independentists in prison in Spain for holding an ‘illegal’ referendum. Now our court has ruled to hold another referendum would not be allowed and therefore be illegal can we not just chuck Sturgeon in Strangeways and have done with it? It gets my vote.
 
JOGAMIGMOG said:
There are Catalan independentists in prison in Spain for holding an ‘illegal’ referendum. Now our court has ruled to hold another referendum would not be allowed and therefore be illegal can we not just chuck Sturgeon in Strangeways and have done with it? It gets my vote.
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Oh aye, that would really calm things down and push any drive for independence back.
 
So how does a country exercise "self-determination" if the colonists don't want to concede it?
 
My company office is in Yorkshire, I moved back to Scotland last year after 18 years working for the same company but WFH in Scotland.

I already pay hundreds of pounds a month extra tax here compared to England I'd hate to think what would happen if SNP got full control.

If Independence does happen I will be moving back to England, no doubt about it.
 
What should happen is what should have happened with the advisory Brexit vote. The question should be along the lines of ‘do you want us (the government) to explore the options for leaving the union?’ If yes, we will then have a plan and put that plan to the vote, outlining exactly what things will look like (pound/no pound, in single market and or customs union etc) and that plan is what you’ll get.
I suppose that the only problem with that is there are people on the ‘independence sides’ who just want it for the sake of wanting it and, even if it’s economically catastrophic, they don’t actually care.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
What should happen is what should have happened with the advisory Brexit vote. The question should be along the lines of ‘do you want us (the government) to explore the options for leaving the union?’ If yes, we will then have a plan and put that plan to the vote, outlining exactly what things will look like (pound/no pound, in single market and or customs union etc) and that plan is what you’ll get.
I suppose that the only problem with that is there are people on the ‘independence sides’ who just want it for the sake of wanting it and, even if it’s economically catastrophic, they don’t actually care.
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That's been done though, there is a report on all that. It would need to be firmed up and updated prior to any vote, but there is far more information out there available for voters than there ever was for Brexit. There are people that just want independence and don't care, but not enough to win a vote for that people need the information you mention.
 
blueparrot said:
That's been done though, there is a report on all that. It would need to be firmed up and updated prior to any vote, but there is far more information out there available for voters than there ever was for Brexit. There are people that just want independence and don't care, but not enough to win a vote for that people need the information you mention.
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You’re imagining that voting is a cold, calculated and informed decision making process when the reality is anything but. It’s about emotion, feeling and, quite often, ‘sticking it to the man’. Brexit is the ultimate proof of this and what Scotland has now is exactly what Brexit had then. “All our woes are down to someone else and YOU have the power to change that.“ It’s hardly a surprise that people without a pot to piss in, with no imagined future, with no good education system to see a way out, who couldn’t imagine how things could ‘be any worse than they already were’ were persuaded that it was all Johnny Foreigners fault and that they then voted for the fabled sunny uplands.
Whilst it’s a despicable play book to have run, it was the only one that gave the real elites the chance to achieve their aims and it is the exact same playbook the SNP will be reaching for if and when there is another referendum.
 
PolarBearCub said:
My company office is in Yorkshire, I moved back to Scotland last year after 18 years working for the same company but WFH in Scotland.

I already pay hundreds of pounds a month extra tax here compared to England I'd hate to think what would happen if SNP got full control.

If Independence does happen I will be moving back to England, no doubt about it.
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The extra taxation is necessary due to the failure of Westminster to provide ferries to get essential goods into Leeds. This has been well documented.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
You’re imagining that voting is a cold, calculated and informed decision making process when the reality is anything but. It’s about emotion, feeling and, quite often, ‘sticking it to the man’. Brexit is the ultimate proof of this and what Scotland has now is exactly what Brexit had then. “All our woes are down to someone else and YOU have the power to change that.“ It’s hardly a surprise that people without a pot to piss in, with no imagined future, with no good education system to see a way out, who couldn’t imagine how things could ‘be any worse than they already were’ were persuaded that it was all Johnny Foreigners fault and that they then voted for the fabled sunny uplands.
Whilst it’s a despicable play book to have run, it was the only one that gave the real elites the chance to achieve their aims and it is the exact same playbook the SNP will be reaching for if and when there is another referendum.
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Some of that is true, but the SNP independence campaign will be vastly different to Brexit in one simple respect, Brexit was all about breaking away from the EU closing borders. Scottish Independence campaign will be founded on rejoining the EU, opening borders with free movement possibly even Schengen or even EURO. So it's far from blaming foreigners for the problems. It will be the strength of that campaign that will tip it one way or the other and that's polar opposite to the insular Brexit campaign.
 
blueparrot said:
Some of that is true, but the SNP independence campaign will be vastly different to Brexit in one simple respect, Brexit was all about breaking away from the EU closing borders. Scottish Independence campaign will be founded on rejoining the EU, opening borders with free movement possibly even Schengen or even EURO. So it's far from blaming foreigners for the problems. It will be the strength of that campaign that will tip it one way or the other and that's polar opposite to the insular Brexit campaign.
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I think the ‘foreigners blamed’ will, in fact, be the English.
 
PolarBearCub said:
My company office is in Yorkshire, I moved back to Scotland last year after 18 years working for the same company but WFH in Scotland.

I already pay hundreds of pounds a month extra tax here compared to England I'd hate to think what would happen if SNP got full control.

If Independence does happen I will be moving back to England, no doubt about it.
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Hundreds of pounds a month extra? 6-figure salary then...
 
blueparrot said:
That's been done though, there is a report on all that. It would need to be firmed up and updated prior to any vote, but there is far more information out there available for voters than there ever was for Brexit. There are people that just want independence and don't care, but not enough to win a vote for that people need the information you mention.
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I don't think he is saying it wasn't or comparing the two, as I read that.

Think the suggestion is a 2 stage vote. One on wanting it, two on definitely
wanting it, in its final format, or abandoning it.

Which, in hindsight, would have been good with Brexit. Not sure if it would have made much difference at the time, doubt anyone was less determined through the 2.5 years of shite between the vote and the final exit.

Maybe we should have a 3rd vote, once we've seen the reality 2 years later and realized how fucking wrong we were, an extra life restart the game!

Joking aside with the last bit, I actually think the original suggestion itself is a fine one and would not have have an issue with it. Unlikely to happen though. But would be a more sensible way to tackle it for sure.
 
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