The Tottenham Thread 13/14 part 3.

[aguero93:20]

Spurs to win the Europa league and qualify for the 2014/15 Champions league as Europa cup winners
Liverpool who finish fourth in the prem are then relegated to the Europa league, in the same fashion they did to Everton

Doesn't quite work out, where's the comeuppance for chelski doing spurs a few years back, everton have to do them out of a cl place too.

 

[moomba]

Pretty sure the CL place for the Europa winner doesnt come in for another year or two.

 

[The Pink Panther]

Pretty sure the CL place for the Europa winner doesnt come in for another year or two.

You're right, it starts 2014/15

 

[bluemiester]

You can't use the new manager bounce to prove AVB was holding these players back, or that he was a crap manager. He may have done/been both, but 4 odd games under Sherwood isn't conclusive either way.

That aside, this Sherwood honeymoon is going to go exactly the same way as 'Arry. If you give good players confidence to go out and play well, they will, and you'll beat a lot of the league in doing so through virtue of nothing more than having more talent. Problem is when you come up against a team who has good players, with confidence, playing well, but is tactically drilled and incredibly disciplined. Until they get someone in who can achieve both they'll continue falling short.

Reading the paper this morning I was questioning why I bother at all. You never read anything new. This morning Dawson IIRC is praising 'the gaffer', giving them confidence to go out and play their game, working harder in training (most intense training ever done don'chano?), two strikers is best, etc etc. All complete bullshit but trotted out when a new manager comes in time and time and time again. If the players idea of a good manager is one who lets them go out and do whatever the hell they like, they'll always be scraping for 4th and winning fuck all.

Levy needs to get a proper football manager in. Stop pissing around with charlatans and cockney wide boys.

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

You can't use the new manager bounce to prove AVB was holding these players back, or that he was a crap manager. He may have done/been both, but 4 odd games under Sherwood isn't conclusive either way.

That aside, this Sherwood honeymoon is going to go exactly the same way as 'Arry. If you give good players confidence to go out and play well, they will, and you'll beat a lot of the league in doing so through virtue of nothing more than having more talent. Problem is when you come up against a team who has good players, with confidence, playing well, but is tactically drilled and incredibly disciplined. Until they get someone in who can achieve both they'll continue falling short.

Reading the paper this morning I was questioning why I bother at all. You never read anything new. This morning Dawson IIRC is praising 'the gaffer', giving them confidence to go out and play their game, working harder in training (most intense training ever done don'chano?), two strikers is best, etc etc. All complete bullshit but trotted out when a new manager comes in time and time and time again. If the players idea of a good manager is one who lets them go out and do whatever the hell they like, they'll always be scraping for 4th and winning fuck all.

Levy needs to get a proper football manager in. Stop pissing around with charlatans and cockney wide boys.

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

Yep Hughes did such a great job after spending a fortune...

 

[bluemiester]

You can't use the new manager bounce to prove AVB was holding these players back, or that he was a crap manager. He may have done/been both, but 4 odd games under Sherwood isn't conclusive either way.

That aside, this Sherwood honeymoon is going to go exactly the same way as 'Arry. If you give good players confidence to go out and play well, they will, and you'll beat a lot of the league in doing so through virtue of nothing more than having more talent. Problem is when you come up against a team who has good players, with confidence, playing well, but is tactically drilled and incredibly disciplined. Until they get someone in who can achieve both they'll continue falling short.

Reading the paper this morning I was questioning why I bother at all. You never read anything new. This morning Dawson IIRC is praising 'the gaffer', giving them confidence to go out and play their game, working harder in training (most intense training ever done don'chano?), two strikers is best, etc etc. All complete bullshit but trotted out when a new manager comes in time and time and time again. If the players idea of a good manager is one who lets them go out and do whatever the hell they like, they'll always be scraping for 4th and winning fuck all.

Levy needs to get a proper football manager in. Stop pissing around with charlatans and cockney wide boys.

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

Yep Hughes did such a great job after spending a fortune...

But Hughes didn't take over a team that was already 5th. People act as if these managers all take over with clubs in the same state. When Huges left he didn't take the likes of Vinny, Tevez, De Jong and Zabaleta with him. They stayed and on top of that we bought players like Silva, Toure, Dzeko and Aguero. Both Hughes and Bobby bought quite a lot of average for big money, but can get away with it due to our resources. Years of spending hundreds of millions on transfer fees and wages is what brings success in the Premier League. There is a near perfect correlation between spending and success, yet fans still persist with this ridiculous idea the likes of Spurs are being held back by not having a "proper" manager.

Over the last 5 years Spurs have a net spend of a + £15 million. Our net spend in that time is about £300 million. They've also spent about £200 million less in wages. I'm surprised we didn't save the money and just bring in a "proper" manager!

 

[Paladin]

Just watched the United v Spurs game again on BT Sports. Harry Kane had an interesting 10 minutes. The ball was going to him in a clearly offside position, and rather than let it run to De Gea for a punt out of his hands, he booted it into the stands, thus conceding the offside, but also wasting precious seconds.

But towards the end of his 10 minute cameo he looked absolutely dead on his feet. He looked as though he had just finished a 120 minute stint. He is either the slowest midfielder in England, or seriously lacking fitness.

 

[supercrystal7]

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

Yep Hughes did such a great job after spending a fortune...

But Hughes didn't take over a team that was already 5th. People act as if these managers all take over with clubs in the same state. When Huges left he didn't take the likes of Vinny, Tevez, De Jong and Zabaleta with him. They stayed and on top of that we bought players like Silva, Toure, Dzeko and Aguero. Both Hughes and Bobby bought quite a lot of average for big money, but can get away with it due to our resources. Years of spending hundreds of millions on transfer fees and wages is what brings success in the Premier League. There is a near perfect correlation between spending and success, yet fans still persist with this ridiculous idea the likes of Spurs are being held back by not having a "proper" manager.

Over the last 5 years Spurs have a net spend of a + £15 million. Our net spend in that time is about £300 million. They've also spent about £200 million less in wages. I'm surprised we didn't save the money and just bring in a "proper" manager!

I agree completely. Have said it often, but people think that managers are alchemist. Mourinho, who will likely go down as the best manage ever, said it best " you cannot make a good omelet with bag eggs." Though a bad manager can make a bad omelet with good eggs.

On average you are going get the player and wages you spend on. A brilliant manager like Klopp and Benitez might be able to find value and make their team punch way above their weight. However, eventually they are going to buy a Keane/Aquilani or a Mkhitaryan and they just don't have the financial muscle to recover. A manager literally has to be perfect. Nobody is perfect and once they make a mistake the club falls back. City, Chelsea and United can afford to waste money on the likes of Torres, Adebayor, Hargreaves (harsh due to injuries) or Anderson and then spend again. Not so for teams below them.

Redknapp really did not do much better than AVB or Jol. He was lucky to have the emergence of Bale and be at a time before City had become a dominant top force and Chelsea were rebuilding again. This year a space has opened up once more, because United have a terrible manager. If United had a decent manager it would be virtually impossible for a team like Tottenham or Liverpool to crack it.

 

[GHoddle]

You can't use the new manager bounce to prove AVB was holding these players back, or that he was a crap manager. He may have done/been both, but 4 odd games under Sherwood isn't conclusive either way.

That aside, this Sherwood honeymoon is going to go exactly the same way as 'Arry. If you give good players confidence to go out and play well, they will, and you'll beat a lot of the league in doing so through virtue of nothing more than having more talent. Problem is when you come up against a team who has good players, with confidence, playing well, but is tactically drilled and incredibly disciplined. Until they get someone in who can achieve both they'll continue falling short.

Reading the paper this morning I was questioning why I bother at all. You never read anything new. This morning Dawson IIRC is praising 'the gaffer', giving them confidence to go out and play their game, working harder in training (most intense training ever done don'chano?), two strikers is best, etc etc. All complete bullshit but trotted out when a new manager comes in time and time and time again. If the players idea of a good manager is one who lets them go out and do whatever the hell they like, they'll always be scraping for 4th and winning fuck all.

Levy needs to get a proper football manager in. Stop pissing around with charlatans and cockney wide boys.

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

United with Ferguson = two 89 point finishes back to back.
United with Moyes = probably 20 points worse.

Shows how important a top quality manager is imo.

 

[bluemiester]

You can't use the new manager bounce to prove AVB was holding these players back, or that he was a crap manager. He may have done/been both, but 4 odd games under Sherwood isn't conclusive either way.

That aside, this Sherwood honeymoon is going to go exactly the same way as 'Arry. If you give good players confidence to go out and play well, they will, and you'll beat a lot of the league in doing so through virtue of nothing more than having more talent. Problem is when you come up against a team who has good players, with confidence, playing well, but is tactically drilled and incredibly disciplined. Until they get someone in who can achieve both they'll continue falling short.

Reading the paper this morning I was questioning why I bother at all. You never read anything new. This morning Dawson IIRC is praising 'the gaffer', giving them confidence to go out and play their game, working harder in training (most intense training ever done don'chano?), two strikers is best, etc etc. All complete bullshit but trotted out when a new manager comes in time and time and time again. If the players idea of a good manager is one who lets them go out and do whatever the hell they like, they'll always be scraping for 4th and winning fuck all.

Levy needs to get a proper football manager in. Stop pissing around with charlatans and cockney wide boys.

Why do people still believe stuff like that? It just comes down to money. I remember before the CL everyone saying Redknapp would be found out and he took them the 1/4 finals. They beat the current champions and the also the team that would win that years Serie A on route. When they finished 4th that season, people said they'd never do it again after we spent £100 million on the likes of Silva and pay them huge wages. But 2 years later they finished 4th ahead of Chelsea. Their wage bill was nowhere near any of the other teams that finished in the top 4. If they could pay more and attract better players they'd have done even better. The "proper" football managers you speak about are the charlatans, yet they football world don't seem to get it yet. Take a bit of money away from these "proper" managers and see what happens (ie Benitez in 2009/10). I'd give anything to see Pep taking over at Villa. They'd probably get relegated and still no one would click.

You really think Bobby would have finished 3rd and over taken Spurs had he not been given an absolute fortune to spend? You think AVB and Ramos forgot how to coach as soon as they turned up at Spurs? Were you one of those surprised by how rubbish England were under Cappello? No manager is taking Spurs higher than 4th/maybe 3rd at a push, unless they get a massive boost in finances. Levy and football fans everywhere need to understand these things and stop believing in and hyping the idea of super coaches and managers.

United with Ferguson = two 89 point finishes back to back.
United with Moyes = probably 20 points worse.

Shows how important a top quality manager is imo.

Mourinho takes Chelsea to 2nd with 83 points in 2006/7.
Grant takes Chelsea to 2nd with 85 points in 2007/8.