Today's shooting in America thread

Alan Harper's Tash

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12 Dec 2010
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Again, and slower for the Short Bus crowd…

I’m not saying I AGREE with it, I’m saying I live in the real world where the law allows it.

Step out of your prejudice for a scant second, look at the reality of 2A, Heller, MacDonald, the make-up of SCOTUS, Congress and the Governors of the 50 states, WTFU, then go back to your prejudices with a little education.

If you refuse to learn the reasons something is the way it is, I can’t help you!

And, while you’re at it, you might not want to brag too much about kid culture in England today. Just had family over from Manc and some of the stories were dire…and they were pleasantly surprised by the attitudes and behaviors of the kids they ran into over here.
You sure put forward a strong pro gun argument for someone who maybe doesn’t agree with 2A.

You live in the real world with it as there isn’t enough of an appetite to change it. Your culture can’t allow the banning of guns.

There will always be constant legal challenges to 2A as some people feel strongly enough against gun ownership. It will never succeed as no set of judges will want to be the people that go down in history as the judges that banned guns.

There‘d also be a civil war as a result in all likelihood.

Until that culture changes, it’ll just carry on as it is with random people being killed at random places across your country.

I don’t think many, if any, of us will actually ever fully understand your culture’s need for guns. I think that’s why we have so many cyclical debates on it.

Until you are ready to have a conversation about them, it’ll just be thoughts and prayers be sent out to grieving families, whilst being too soon to have a debate about guns.
 

ChicagoBlue

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This one?

Seems to support his definition, to be fair.
“Special education” is the key term in your version. If you go back to what I ACTUALLY SAID, I said “slower.” Does that indicate a physical disability to you? Should one talk slower to someone like Stephen Hawking? If so, why?


Generally, the short bus is a smaller version of a regular school bus that carries mentally challenged students to school. On rare occasions, if your school board is a bunch of assholes (like mine), you will be forced to ride in a short bus for field trips if you class contains less than 18 students.
Teacher: We'll all be going on a trip to the art museum Friday!
Class: Hooray!
Teacher: And we're taking a short bus!
Class: ............
Time: Passes
Class: *is riding the short bus on the highway*
Other cars: *point and laugh*
Class: *is mortified*

Your parting gift for playing along at home:

 
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ChicagoBlue

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You sure put forward a strong pro gun argument for someone who maybe doesn’t agree with 2A.

You live in the real world with it as there isn’t enough of an appetite to change it. Your culture can’t allow the banning of guns.

There will always be constant legal challenges to 2A as some people feel strongly enough against gun ownership. It will never succeed as no set of judges will want to be the people that go down in history as the judges that banned guns.

There‘d also be a civil war as a result in all likelihood.

Until that culture changes, it’ll just carry on as it is with random people being killed at random places across your country.

I don’t think many, if any, of us will actually ever fully understand your culture’s need for guns. I think that’s why we have so many cyclical debates on it.

Until you are ready to have a conversation about them, it’ll just be thoughts and prayers be sent out to grieving families, whilst being too soon to have a debate about guns.
When you say “you” and “your” to me, understand that I was born and raised in England, so this is not “my” culture, but one to which I had to adapt or suffer the consequences.

Both the legal and logistical hurdles to 2A SEEM insurmountable to me, and I live in a solidly Blue state often derided by others for being so Blue, but even in Illinois, it is only the massive urban center that is Chicago that keeps it that way. Fwiw, moderate Republican, Adam Kinzinger, who is one of only 2 Rs on the 1/6 Committee is not running for re-election because even downstate IL areas are MAGA country!

We often drive to Lake Geneva (50 miles N of here) through the country rather than on the highway and it’s Trump/MAGA Flag & “Let’s Go Brandon” Central.

We have also had numerous recent Republican Governors! And, that’s in what’s called “Commie Illinois” by outsiders!!!!

Put it this way, if you can’t find a station that plays Morissey/Stone Roses/Joy Division/Buzzcocks on the FM dial of your car radio, then you are in RED USA!

2A ain’t changing anytime soon, whether immigrants like me want the culture to change or not. Welcome to the real world.
 
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Alan Harper's Tash

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26,957
When you say “you” and “your” to me, understand that I was born and raised in England, so this is not “my” culture, but one to which I had to adapt or suffer the consequences.

Both the legal and logistical hurdles to 2A SEEM insurmountable to me, and I live in a solidly Blue state often derided by others for being so Blue, but even in Illinois, it is only the massive urban center that is Chicago that keeps it that way. Fwiw, moderate Republican, Adam Kinzinger, who is one of only 2 Rs on the 1/6 Committee is not running for re-election because even downstate IL areas are MAGA country!

We often drive to Lake Geneva (50 miles N of here) through the country rather than on the highway and it’s Trump/MAGA Central, and we have had numerous recent Republican Governors! And, that’s in “Commie Illinois”!!!!

Put it this way, if you can’t find a station that plays Morissey on your FM dial of your car radio, then you are in RED USA!

2A ain’t changing anytime soon, whether immigrants like me want the culture to change or not. The real world.
Gun control shouldn’t be political. The fact that it is polarises strong opinions on the issue.

You seem to have assimilated well into their culture, which is good, because you are the one who has to, not me.

I‘d never own a gun. I just couldn’t.

You feel safer carrying one as most others may well be carrying too.

It only makes you safer if you get the first shot in.

The debates on here are futile as as you say, US gun culture isnt changing soon. You’d have more success if you made ammunition crazy expensive.
 

JASR

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@SWP's back made the point that US citizens aren't allowed to keep tank's that fire rounds... or grenades, or artillery, or armed planes, or warships, or missile systems, or torpedo/missile submarines, or NCB weapons... so if none of those are allowed under the wording of 2A's 'right to bear arms', then 2A's 'right to bear arms' is very selective and has been subjectively changed to literally mean 'pistols and rifles (and anything below - bow and arrows, blades etc).
Which makes no sense. The continuing existense of 2A is only acknowledging that it was fine and fit for purpose when it was drafted, but weapons have progressed, and each progression hasn't been allowed to be used by a 'the well regulated militia'... leaving 2A nonsensical - you can't bear any of the arms that have been developed since 2A came into existence.
So 2A is illogical, unenforced/trampled on - because the militia isn't allowed by other laws to have any other types of weapons.

If it is neccesary to have a 'well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State', then they aren't going to be doing a hill of beans against anyone with weapons bigger than rifles. So 2A falls down yet again, by not being fit for purpose - the militia can't defend the security of a free state with the weapons they have.

If 2A advocates campaigned (and got) for the general sale of , and free use of all weapons, then 2A makes sense. They'd have access to all weapons, and could defend the state against all-comers. But they don't. They just talk about "their guns", effectively advocating for limiting the "freedom" they generally proclaim.

2A is just not viable or logical (at any interpretation), for either those who advocate it (but miss the nuances), or those who want it repealed.

But as (almost) @ChicagoBlue says, it's just pissing in the wind, and is just another US hill to choose to die on, despite it making no sense in humanity terms.
 

ChicagoBlue

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13,695
Gun control shouldn’t be political. The fact that it is polarises strong opinions on the issue.

You seem to have assimilated well into their culture, which is good, because you are the one who has to, not me.

I‘d never own a gun. I just couldn’t.

You feel safer carrying one as most others may well be carrying too.

It only makes you safer if you get the first shot in.

The debates on here are futile as as you say, US gun culture isnt changing soon. You’d have more success if you made ammunition crazy expensive.
Ammo already is “crazy expensive,” as are guns, but some people allot their scarce resources differently here.

In many ways, there is still a “Frontier” mentality outside the large cities, where media is created. Those people neither like nor trust media they don’t see as “free and open,” because they despise the “liberal elites” they think controls the message…hence the multi-billion dollar spat over Twitter that’s going on, and the growth of alternative platforms where right wingers feel free to say whatever crosses their mind without fear of being “cancelled!”

Whether I agree with any of that is irrelevant, because that’s the mire in which I live!
 
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