Today's shooting in America thread

Mad Eyed Screamer said:
If you ask the average American, other than the 2nd and the 5th ammendment, I doubt many even know (or care) about the 1st, 3rd or 4th.
That bit of paper is the thing that enables them to keep their guns as there is no other logical reason why it should continue
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Have you not seen Red Dawn?

red-dawn-wolverines.gif
 
supercity88 said:
I really don't understand the American obsession with the constitution. How can an old bit of paper be more precious than the lives of people living in the country now, getting gunned down here, there and everywhere. Perhaps to an outsider it's like our obsession with the Royal Family though.
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I don’t think they particularly give a shit about the constitution as such. You don’t hear them banging on about the 1st amendment. Or any amendment other than the 2nd. They just want lots of guns and quoting one line from the constitution that gives them that right is a handy thing to do.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I guess what it comes down to that this is really a useful history lesson. I imagine, for example, some of the arguments I read here are the same that reasonable, kind, rational slaveholders made.

I don't mistreat my slaves in the least, they want for nothing. And I am appalled and angered by those that do. They should be prosecuted and punished.

After all, while the Constitution is a bit fuzzy on the topic, given the 3/5ths compromise, the prohibition on outlawing the slave trade, and the fugitive slave clause, slavery is certainly protected. And with 60% of the nation's GDP dependent on it, there's really nothing we can do to change anything without incredible risk and national disruption.

Plus I enjoy the costless labo(u)r they provide which allow me to supply Manchester's mills with incredibly cheap cotton to maintain my market share. This allows me to live my best life in comfort and security. That's the American ideal, after all.

Of course if the abolitionists have it right and the laws change, I'll give up my slaves, because I'm no criminal. But until they do, I will live my life as I'm allowed, and since they won't, given the huge national division on the issue, I am free to offer my views about how to make the situation better while there are no negative repercussions for me. Nor will I admit that my demand for the product in question is part of the problem -- and the only truly controllable part of the problem.

After all, my slaves are just a drop in the ocean of slaves. If I set them free, my lifestyle is harmed but the situation remains unsolved. My action would mean nothing.

So I'll stand pat with the staus quo, thank you.

Oh well.

No, I'm not equating gun ownership with slavery. No, I'm not suggesting gun owners are racist. I am drawing connections between parallel threads of logic. That's all. Yes, I'm aware the comparison isn't perfect. No, I'm not suggesting ipso facto.
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So in summary they need an American Civil War II.
 
Grassland Blue said:
One posterdescribed his gun as 'a thing of beauty'!
Well how about letting the gun owners keep their weapons but ban the ammo....
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Bullets are even more beautiful. Tiny shiny golden freedom-spraying penises.

(Get the yanks a tissue)
 
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TonyM said:
So in summary they need an American Civil War II.
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It won't come to that -- it's just Israel/Palestine where we all live with factional violence forever.

I mean, I'm kindly and quietly asking the three rational, logical, law-abiding and in at least one case quite liberal gunowners here to simply voluntarily get rid of their guns. No tricks, no histrionics, no demands, no restrictions, no laws.

And none of them will.

So how do you think such a request -- or worse a legal demand -- will go over with gun fanatics?

I think this proves a point. If rational gunowners won't self-sacrifice, it's hopeless. It's unsolvable.

We have to live with it up until political will catches up.

I suspect you could literally take all the children and spouses of every pro-gun nutjob politican and execute them in public with an AR-15 and those polticians wouldn't change a whit of their public views here.

So, yeah, it won't catch up anytime soon.
 
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tolmie's hairdoo said:
I see the turd that won't flush, Tucker Carlson is trying to steer the debate away from guns and have the massacre labelled a Christian hate crime...

That and the usual flip the script of brave police officers also rushing to the same.
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If that’s the case shouldn’t they just turn the other cheek and forgive them.

Tucker isn’t the only one going the Christian hate crime angle.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
If you ask the average American, other than the 2nd and the 5th ammendment, I doubt many even know (or care) about the 1st, 3rd or 4th.
That bit of paper is the thing that enables them to keep their guns as there is no other logical reason why it should continue
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2A is just 27 words, arranged into a massively ambiguous statement that can be read multiple ways. In fact, some state ratified versions of 2A had missing commas or different capitalisation.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It's almost like a line from instruction manual for a washing machine that has been badly translated from Chinese.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I mean, I'm kindly and quietly asking the three rational, logical, law-abiding and in at least one case quite liberal gunowners here to simply voluntarily get rid of their guns. No tricks, no histrionics, no demands, no restrictions, no laws.

And none of them will.

So how do you think such a request -- or worse a legal demand -- will go over with gun fanatics?

I think this proves a point. If rational gunowners won't self-sacrifice, it's hopeless. It's unsolvable.
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Why should I voluntarily give up my guns FogBlueInSanFran, for what reason?

I have a legitimate use for mine, along with legitimate licensed ownership.

As I've said before, this country along with many others have gun ownership, but with strict regulation and control, yet don't have the mass shootings experienced in the US.

If people want to kill people, they will, whether it's with a knife or a vehicle, you won't stop the radical or mentally ill. Based on the evidence worldwide, efficiently restricting guns would be the place to start in the US.
 
Slipper One said:
Why should I voluntarily give up my guns FogBlueInSanFran, for what reason?

I have a legitimate use for mine, along with legitimate licensed ownership.

As I've said before, this country along with many others have gun ownership, but with strict regulation and control, yet don't have the mass shootings experienced in the US.

If people want to kill people, they will, whether it's with a knife or a vehicle, you won't stop the radical or mentally ill. Based on the evidence worldwide, efficiently restricting guns would be the place to start in the US.
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I already explained precisely why like six times. That such a message has literally no impact and I have to repeat myself is exactly why the problem is unsolvable.

There isn’t one single gunowner — not ONE — who thinks his/her own specific demand for the product is part of the problem.
 
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