Tories win Copeland b-election.

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We had the chance to change it in 2011 referendum and didn't take it, I can't see another chance for quite a while.

It doesn't make the present state of affairs any less reprehensible in my eyes, in part because the option on the table was utterly wank.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Turnout was 42% (about 19M). No won with 68% of the vote. Out of the 11 'major' parties (10 with MP's and UKIP) 8 were in favour, the Conservatives and DUP against and Labour couldn't make up their mind!

And now the tories and the right in general have a seemingly unshakable stranglehold on U.K. Politics, how I wish I could go back and change my vote, I'm at least honest with that, wonder how many brexiters would be equally as honest

 

[Chippy_boy]

Well what bad have you got? Iraq? Is that it?

Good Friday agreement
National minimum wage
Keeping us out of the €
Education spending at ne'er seen before levels including a massive school rebuilding project
Health spending at levels per capita not seen since
A healthy economy
Northern city regeneration (Manchester Leeds Newcastle Liverpool all now a million miles from the impoverished decaying dumps of the thatcher 80s)

There'll be a lot more on top but I need to see to my baby daughter

Although he's the best leader Labour have seen in 70 years (in part because he wasn't very Labour), he still wrecked the economy as Labour always does. It's just he took longer to do it than normal.

He inherited from the Tories an economy that was strong and growing, and instead of using the growth and wealth created to invest in our public services AND pay down our national debt, he did only the former. He allowed the worst Chancellor in living memory - Gordon "evil" Brown - to systematically steal from every pocket he could find, in order to fund this unaffordable spending spree. And when the easy tax increases were all done, he started on the devious and insidious taxes, hoping people might not notice or care ( (on his watch at least). Like ruining our pensions, selling off our gold reserves, taxing our energy and our holiday flights (FFS!) raising national insurance. Basically taxing anything that moves, so long as he could keep the base income tax rate the same and not create public outcry.

And then when the shit finally hit the fan with the crash in 2008, his incompetence was laid bare for all to see: We were completely broke after the decade plus of Labour profligacy.

Tories get back in, spend 10 years trying to sort it out again. Rinse and repeat. The only hope is they may get longer than 10 years this time, courtesy of our Trotskyist friend.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

It doesn't make the present state of affairs any less reprehensible in my eyes, in part because the option on the table was utterly wank.

Agree, nothing is ever truly black and white, yes or no was far to aggressive a question, much like in or out was

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Although he's the best leader Labour have seen in 70 years (in part because he wasn't very Labour), he still wrecked the economy as Labour always does. It's just he took longer to do it than normal.

He inherited from the Tories an economy that was strong and growing, and instead of using the growth and wealth created to invest in our public services AND pay down our national debt, he did only the former. He allowed the worst Chancellor in living memory - Gordon "evil" Brown - to systematically steal from every pocket he could find, in order to fund this unaffordable spending spree. And when the easy tax increases were all done, he started on the devious and insidious taxes, hoping people might not notice or care ( (on his watch at least). Like ruining our pensions, selling off our gold reserves, taxing our energy and our holiday flights (FFS!) raising national insurance. Basically taxing anything that moves, so long as he could keep the base income tax rate the same and not create public outcry.

And then when the shit finally hit the fan with the crash in 2008, his incompetence was laid bare for all to see: We were completely broke after the decade plus of Labour profligacy.

Tories get back in, spend 10 years trying to sort it out again. Rinse and repeat. The only hope is they may get longer than 10 years this time, courtesy of our Trotskyist friend.

Haven't finished reading so I'll probably edit, but I'd contest he wrecked the economy, that happened after Blair and was much more down to banking practices than politics.

Edit now, I had little issue with many of those 'stealth' taxes mentioned, aside from the gold sale which appeared on the face of it a reasonable idea at the time (hindsight n all that). If I can afford a holiday I'll happily pay some tax on the flight to pump back into the economy so I return from the holiday to a nice modern city not the aforementioned forgotten decaying shit tip

What a time 1997 to 2007 was to be alive, apart from football, obviously ;-)

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Was in Manc yesterday and unlike the match where I tend to bypass the centre, had a wonder from Oxford Road to Deansgate past the Midland hotel etc....Seems like the number of beggars/homeless on the streets is increasing by the month. It's almost every doorway. If I was a tourist visiting, I would think it was a bit of a shithole to be honest. Is it just the time we live in now? I used to give a bloke with a dog who sat near Oxford road station a bit of change when I worked in the City a few years back and he was the only one in that area. I must have passed 30 or more yesterday in a one mile stretch.

Although he's the best leader Labour have seen in 70 years (in part because he wasn't very Labour), he still wrecked the economy as Labour always does. It's just he took longer to do it than normal.

He inherited from the Tories an economy that was strong and growing, and instead of using the growth and wealth created to invest in our public services AND pay down our national debt, he did only the former. He allowed the worst Chancellor in living memory - Gordon "evil" Brown - to systematically steal from every pocket he could find, in order to fund this unaffordable spending spree. And when the easy tax increases were all done, he started on the devious and insidious taxes, hoping people might not notice or care ( (on his watch at least). Like ruining our pensions, selling off our gold reserves, taxing our energy and our holiday flights (FFS!) raising national insurance. Basically taxing anything that moves, so long as he could keep the base income tax rate the same and not create public outcry.

And then when the shit finally hit the fan with the crash in 2008, his incompetence was laid bare for all to see: We were completely broke after the decade plus of Labour profligacy.

Tories get back in, spend 10 years trying to sort it out again. Rinse and repeat. The only hope is they may get longer than 10 years this time, courtesy of our Trotskyist friend.

Errrr you need to check your facts.......it wasn't the labour party that created the 'deficit' it was the fact that they had to bail out the bankers.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

It doesn't make the present state of affairs any less reprehensible in my eyes, in part because the option on the table was utterly wank.

Yet another thing that Clegg was culpable for. He bent over the table for Cameron and sold out almost every policy he believed in because he wanted that referendum. He should surely have a). Extracted a much higher price and b). Put the referendum on the table for a much later date, once people could see that the world hadn't imploded through having a coalition government.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Labour's majority in Copeland:

1997 : 11,000
2005 : 7,000
2010 : 4,000
2015 : 2500

Not everything is Corbyn's fault

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Labour's majority in Copeland:

1997 : 11,000
2005 : 7,000
2010 : 4,000
2015 : 2500

Not everything is Corbyn's fault

2017 : LOST

1997 Lab swept to power in a landslide
2005 : that power is eroded like every government sees, apart from a government whose opposition is led by Corbyn that is

 

[AustinBlue]

I find the state of politics in this country hugely depressing at the present time and the primary source for this is the first past the post system. I've been opposed to it for all my adult life, even when I was happy with and voting for Labour in the noughties and they were securing large majorities, but my opinion has now developed to the point where I view it as the biggest hinderence to effective and representative democracy in this country. How can it be right, notwithstanding their recent decline, that UKIP have a single MP? That is an utterly reprehensible statistic in relation to a party that secured 13% of the votes. Millions of people, who would otherwise do so, fail to bother voting because they live in 'safe' constituencies and they know that voting is an utter waste of time and effort.

Nothing will get done about it, of course. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Could be worse. You could live in a country where Donald Trump was elected