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Train ticket prices
- Thread starter Chippy_boy
- Start date
I don't agree that privatisation is the cause. Would you advocate privatising Sainsbury's or John Lewis as a result of their poor service and them being private? The cause is lack of proper competition because they fucked up how the rail privatisation was done.
It isn't because of privatisation.
As I said, if privatisation doesn't work then how come Amazon gives you great service and low prices?
Privatisation doesn't work when there's insufficient competition, since private companies seek to maximise profits and will do so at the expense of investment and customer service if able to do so.
If they have competition - or a competent regulator - then they are not able to do so.
Why do you think private retailers often offer "no quibble money back guarantees"? Is it because that costs them nothing and increases their profits? Of course not, quite the opposite. It costs them money, but nevertheless they do it since they are in a competitive environment and have learned that better customer service = better customer loyalty and repeat business = more revenues = more profits.
This whole customer driven ethos is completely missing from the train companies since they have no competition for the duration of their franchise agreement. and a regulator who lets them get away with murder. Tickets that can't be cancelled and refunded; being treated like a criminal if you sit in the wrong seat or catch the wrong train; relentless price increases; lack of investment etc etc etc. This is all because the train companies are being allowed to get away with it, since the regulator is useless and they have no competition on the service they are providing.
Done properly, privatisation works.
Great post.
A textbook example of false equivalence.
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East Level 2
Well-Known Member
Perhaps Vic worked on the railways or had friends who worked there?No idea. Because you don't like to hear the truth perhaps? It's true; get over it.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Perhaps Vic worked on the railways or had friends who worked there?
Did he/they work with my sister? I doubt it.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
I don't agree that privatisation is the cause. Would you advocate privatising Sainsbury's or John Lewis as a result of their poor service and them being private? The cause is lack of proper competition because they fucked up how the rail privatisation was done.
If you could travel between Bristol and London on Virgin Trains and GWR and Cross Country, then you'd have the situation where passengers would think "Hmmmm, shall I take the 7:30 Virgin Train, which is £xyz but I get the great table-side service and excellent breakfast? Or perhaps the 7:45 GWR train, which is a bit cheaper and they have those excellent reclining seats?"
We'd have REAL competition and prices would have come down and down and down, just like Easyjet and Ryanair have driven airfares down and made that affordable.
Instead we have a 10 year monopoly on every route, a private company profiteering (since that's what they will do if allowed) and a fucking useless regulator which refuses to do their job and TELL the rail company to reduce its prices.
I remember when a flight from London to Paris was £500 return back in the late 1990's. It's now perhaps 1/10th of that if you shop around. This could have happened to train fares too, had we not fucked it up. Can you imagine if we only allowed 1 airline to fly from London to Paris, and we let them charge what they like? The price would be probably £1,000 return or more by now. That's what we've done to the railways.
Sainsburys and John Lewis are not vital services required to get people to work, school, hospital etc for the good of the country.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
And train companies don't sell groceries. So what?Sainsburys and John Lewis are not vital services required to get people to work, school, hospital etc for the good of the country.
I suspect the point you fail to make is whereas private enterprise so very demonstrably works well in certain scenarios, for some unwritten and unfathomable reason, they can't work for train companies?
If you are going to assert that, then you need some reasoning, logic, data to back it up. I put it to you that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with privatisation, but that it has to be implemented properly.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
And train companies don't sell groceries. What's your point?
Oh come on Cb, surely you can work out the difference between a retailer selling us shit and an essential public service that millions of rely on to keep the country working.?
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Oh come on Cb, surely you can work out the difference between a retailer selling us shit and an essential public service that millions of rely on to keep the country working.?
I think perhaps I can.
The question is, can you put up a cogent argument as to why privatisation works so well for certain industries, and cannot work for public services?
"Because they are essential public services" is not a cogent argument, it is a description of what they are. I assert that privatisation works really well when you have proper competition and if we had proper competition for rail services, we'd see the same benefits we see everywhere else. And it is because the way it's been implemented, does not provide proper competition and hence the problems we see.
If you think this is not the case, then what's your argument? I'd be interested to hear it.
FWIW I am not ideologically opposed to state ownership. I am ideologically opposed to shit service and from my experience, state ownership is the sure fire way to guarantee just that. If someone could come up with a new way of managing state-run services so that we don't see the same shite we always have to put up with from them, then I am all ears.
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stonerblue
Well-Known Member
I think perhaps I can.
The question is, can you put up a cogent argument as to why privatisation works so well for certain industries, and cannot work for public services?
"Because they are essential public services" is not a cogent argument, it is a description of what they are. I assert that privatisation works really well when you have proper competition and if we had proper competition for rail services, we'd see the same benefits we see everywhere else. And it is because the way it's been implemented, does not provide proper competition and hence the problems we see.
If you think this is not the case, then what's your argument? I'd be interested to hear it.
FWIW I am not ideologically opposed to state ownership. I am ideologically opposed to shit service and from my experience, state ownership is the sure fire way to guarantee just that. If someone could come up with a new way of managing state-run services so that we don't see the same shite we always have to put up with from them, then I am all ears.
Gotta go to work shortly but if you could show me where privatisation of essential services has been beneficial for millions of uk citizens it would help me answer your question.
I think perhaps I can.
The question is, can you put up a cogent argument as to why privatisation works so well for certain industries, and cannot work for public services?
"Because they are essential public services" is not a cogent argument, it is a description of what they are. I assert that privatisation works really well when you have proper competition and if we had proper competition for rail services, we'd see the same benefits we see everywhere else. And it is because the way it's been implemented, does not provide proper competition and hence the problems we see.
If you think this is not the case, then what's your argument? I'd be interested to hear it.
FWIW I am not ideologically opposed to state ownership. I am ideologically opposed to shit service and from my experience, state ownership is the sure fire way to guarantee just that. If someone could come up with a new way of managing state-run services so that we don't see the same shite we always have to put up with from them, then I am all ears.
60% of our railway is owned by state owned companies in any case, just not our state. Having travelled throughout Europe on trains they are a lot cheaper than ours, run on time, the trains are cleaner and their stations are better equipped.