UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

Discussion in 'Bluemoon forum' started by razman, 7 Mar 2019.

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What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  1. Two-year ban upheld

    161 vote(s)
    12.0%
  2. Ban reduced to one year

    411 vote(s)
    30.6%
  3. Ban overturned and City exonerated

    705 vote(s)
    52.5%
  4. Other

    67 vote(s)
    5.0%
  1. petrusha

    petrusha

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    No. There are issues to be resolved before we get to those.

    Firstly, City went to the CAS seeking to have the IC's referral of our case set aside because their procedural breaches made it impossible for the entire process to be prosecuted fairly in the AC. Now, the CAS declined to exercise its power to reverse the IC's ruling on this point at that stage but conceded that it could be a valid argument and that we'd be entitled to put it forward at the current stage, even expressing some sympathy with us on the merits. I assume it's therefore a line of argument that we'll run with again. I'm not sure I'd be confident that it'll be decisive because the AC will have presumably bent over backwards to ensure that any failings on the IC's part can't constitute grounds for the entire process to be binned. However, even if we won't win, this is probably worth pursuing on practical grounds because we have a lot of supporting evidence for the proposition that the procedure is tainted by venality and incompetence and thus depicting an opponent during litigation would generally be seen as helpful from a tactical standpoint.

    Secondly, we know from the pleadings in the first CAS case that City are also alleging that the charges of which we've been found guilty this time involve a reopening of the settlement agreement which we entered into with UEFA when taking the "pinch" Khaldoon referred to, and there are no grounds for reopening the settlement in this way. That doesn't involve a consideration of the issues on the merits, either. All we can say here is that the settlement agreement is a document governed by Swiss law and Swiss law does allow such settlements to be reopened in certain circumstances; however, the barrier for doing so is usually very high. I understand from people who know far more than I about this stuff that one of the parties to the agreement having decided that it doesn't fancy the terms and conditions any longer doesn't cut it.

    I'm completely guessing here, of course, but I note that our case has been listed for three days and it strikes me that arguing through the above, especially if City have as comprehensive a base of evidence as I suspect we do, could take three days on its own. I therefore wonder if we aren't going for a quick win to knock over the ban at an early stage, reserving the option to go back to the CAS for a later hearing on the merits if we need to with the right to ask for the ban to be suspended at that stage.
     
  2. HalfwayUpTheKippax

    HalfwayUpTheKippax

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    It's an away fixture so there are no loyalty points given out. Although that is a moot point as UEFA have insisted that there is a crowd ban for this fixture, which means that there will be no fans other than the 300 or so cheering UEFA employees in the court stadium.

    However, I have a mate who lives on the top floor of a tower block in Lausanne, quite near the venue. I'm going and he said I could bring along a few others. He's got telescopes, binoculars and a parabolic microphone and he is fluent in French, German and bullshit. What could go wrong?
     
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  3. Father Paul

    Father Paul

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    I tend to agree the arguments mentioned above could easily be turned upside down and perhaps we are the ones behaving irrationally. One thing for sure I am glad this thing is coming to a conclusion and hopefully in our favour. I believe that a negative outcome will not be as damaging as some seem to think. It will be a setback but no more than that in the European context.

    However, we should be somewhat concerned that domestic repercusions would follow on from a bad outcome at CAS.
     

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  4. BluessinceHydeRoad

    BluessinceHydeRoad

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    It is fascinating to try and work out what game Ceferin is playing. His latest remarks are far from a ringing endorsement of of the work of the IC and AC and are a very clear attempt to establish and stress his total independence. This may well be so that he escapes all of the fall out if things go badly pear shaped in CAS. His statements on the possible future reform of FFP also seem to be an attempt to keep all bases open. If City win they hold out the chance of fundamental changes or even the complete end of the regulations so that we don't need to drag UEFA further through the courts: if City lose they can be forgotten.

    If City get what we want at CAS though, Ceferin has much greater potential problems with our friends from the G 14 and I'd love to know just how ruthless an operator he is. The most serious threat to UEFA would be a break away league, especially if this involved clubs other than the 14. FIFA's position would be important but FIFA would have to be very careful since Infantino is now under investigation for TV deals going back to his time at UEFA and FIFA has not had such a good time at the hands of the FBI. What comes now is pure espionage fiction-based speculation but could Ceferin now see UEFA as an ally of City and see UEFA's best chance of surviving free from damage as landing blows which weaken G 14 clubs severely? He has stressed recently that the process condemning City "was nothing to do with him" and so throwing Leterme and as many others of the IC and AC to the wolves would be no trouble. It wouldn't be difficult to make the truly shocking decision that Leterme is bent, in the pockets of individual clubs and even foreign powers and must be prosecuted for criminal activity. Similar discoveries could be made concerning UEFA officials who it seems have been using UEFA to further the interests of their clubs, by means which have broken criminal and commercial law. The greatest horror is that these clubs appear to have operated as a cartel, from the courts.with no other aim than cementing their place at the top of football's tree by destroying Manchester City! And corrupt officials at UEFA have cooperated with them! UEFA's stables need cleaning and Alexander is the man to clean them! And we'll see if clubs can still form a breakaway league with many of their officials on the way to chokey while the clubs are paying off whacking fines from the courts.

    Is it pure fantasy ....
     
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  5. Prestwich_Blue

    Prestwich_Blue

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    Excellent post again. There really is some great stuff on here, better than the media give us.

    I'd say it's quite possibly not fantasy. The G-14 must be a thorn in his side, with their constant whingeing and breakaway threats. I'm sure he'd like to see them cowed, and if that involves breaking the back of the likes of Liverpool, the rags, Bayern, PSG then so be it.

    I do now wonder whether we've had a quiet word with him to say a shit storm is coming and he can either be on the receiving end and get caught in the crossfire or stand apart from it and still be in charge of UEFA when we've finished with our targets. And, having seen what we've got, he decided discretion was definitely the better part of valour.
     
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  6. BJL_City

    BJL_City

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    I would like this, the only problem is his ties to Agnelli which throws the nice idea under the bus, because Agnelli is the spokesperson for the cartel's nonsense.

    My inkling would be we've come to an agreement on FFP for which the IC/AC will be dealt with accordingly. In return we've agreed to being tolerated by the club (hence the fair refereeing display in Madrid) in return for which we play ball with the cartel's interests i.e. let Liverpool have their shenanigans and win the title, hence our "surprise" at their involvement in the PL hateful 8 submissions. I think in the meantime we will pick off a few of our most troublesome but less important targets, and the established figureheads in the cartel will go along as it cements them. So we're not in, but we all play ball a bit because the alternative is too chaotic, for the time being.

    I can't reconcile Liverpool getting away with what they have, Ceferin and Agnelli's relationship etc. with us being able to instigate any form of change or reform, even in the unlikely event of complete exoneration, unless we've been making political concessions to be part of the club.
     
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  7. bobbyowenquiff

    bobbyowenquiff

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    Sam Lee's credibility was dented by the story he ran a few months back suggesting that UEFA were backing off taking tough action against City. He was ridiculed when they subsequently announced tough sanctions. I don't believe he would have been stupid enough to have written that without info from a good source.
    It has been reported that there is an internal feud within EUFA between the pro Qatar camp and those who want to try and re-build the reputation of the organisation. I have wondered since if he was briefed by someone in UEFA from the faction which is more positive towards City.
    If this is the case then we should be encouraged by more recent events namely the public criticism of Yves Leterme (including a subtle dig from CAS) and criminal charges being brought against Al Khelaifi. These two are cleary in the "anti-City" camp while Ceferin may be more neutral. This would also explain the more placatory tone from Soriano to the "wider UEFA organisation."
     
    Last edited: 21 May 2020
  8. Nellies left peg

    Nellies left peg

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    Would you expect this shit storm to come out at our appeal or at a time more suitable. Like just as Henderson steps up to lift the league trophy:-)
     
  9. nmc

    nmc

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    Good analysis.. it remains to be seen if Ceferin can distance himself sufficiently to survive a shit storm at UEFA
    - I’m sure our dear friends in the G14 will be looking to push him under the bus at the first available opportunity even if he’s not responsible. As Head of UEFA he’s in a very precarious position. It’s a Conspiracy Theory -of which I’m not usually a fan but I wouldn’t dismiss Qatar‘s (or however you spell it!) involvement. Many leading figures at UEFA clearly took bungs as part of the WC bid and we know Nicolas Sarkozy was up-to his neck in the WC bid and the PSG takeover - so if cash was being distributed perhaps Yves Leterme wasn’t a million miles away ? Clearly PSG have leveraged some influence at UEFA from nowhere. That might go some way to explaining why he buried the PSG enquiry so conveniently. Of course that’s all speculation on my part but this feels like more than a bit of jealousy on the part of the G14 clubs - it feels like someone waging war against our owners.

    I think the other thing to remember is that the G14 clubs - although seen acting as a unit are not a particularly collaborative bunch - sure they are united against us but they so many individual battles to fight - they are fraught with jealousy and petty squabbling. United and Liverpool, Real and Barcelona, Munich and Dortmund, Juventus and Inter ! Hardly natural bedfellows any of them. When this kicks off I wouldn’t expect all the G14 to act as one or to necessarily have the courage of their convictions.
     
  10. lancs blue

    lancs blue

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    It's barm so STFU.
    There used to be many good investigative journalists on the national press but, since online reporting became the major outlet, clickbait has sadly become the norm.
     
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