UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[BlueAnorak]

As to the Mancini payment, I'm pretty sure Mancini was employed as a football consultant in Abu Dhabi way before be became City Manager. The Abu Dhabi pay off may have been to terminate this contract that was now untenable. We just dont know what City have said about this to UEFA.
Personally, I think this is the issue that City should be most worried about in terms of a UEFA charge. Though why Abu Dhabi should disclose this to UEFA, I'm not quite sure. Especially as UEFA certainly tried to stitch us up by changing the FFP compliance spreadsheets after we submitted our 2012 accounts.

 

[Metalartin]

As other’s have stated, Liverpool's recent transfer war chest is down to selling their best players who wanted to move to other clubs to win trophies. Which they have proved was the right decision. It would have been interesting to see what Liverpool’s transfer war chest would have been like, alongside UEFA and PL FFP, if those players had decided to stay.

Not once have I read anywhere amongst all this Liverpool net spend back slapping is that damning fact. Liverpool couldn't hold on to their best players. Yes, they have replaced them with comparable players, yet Liverpool still remain trophy less in their recent era.

This Summer Liverpool won’t have any transfer kitty. But they will have the PL and CL money. But their wages and agent fees have gone through the roof after signing all those new players. Let’s see how much they have to spend on players this Summer, while still having to complying with FFP.

Also market inflation complaints which were all the rage seem to have died down now for "more important" matters, now that they have realised City have never held a world record transfer fee and actually have a good transfer strategy. No talk of the damage the selling clubs and their agents do to the game either by holding out for massive fees, in regards to market inflation. That would bring the spotlight on United(Ronaldo sale), Spurs(Modric, Bale), Liverpool(Suarez, Coutinho) and they couldn't have that... that's just good business, organic innit?

 

[Fordyboy46]

So whens this eternal Champs league ban coming then?.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Reasonable you say? I'll have to disagree there, very dodgy indeed how they rushed to meet the deadline with many questions yet to be posed.

Fair enough.

Eliminate the last few words of mine: "it's reasonable that the UEFA investigators have to adhere to the rules of the UEFA investigations"

That requirement is why they rushed it - simply, they had to to have any chance. It will just have the knock-on effect of weakening their position once the lawyers get into it - I think that's a different part of it.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

As to the Mancini payments, I'm pretty sure Mancini was employed as a football consultant in Abu Dhabi way before be became City Manager. The Abu Dhabi pay off may have been to terminate this contract that was now untenable. We just dont know what City have said about this to UEFA.
Personally, I think this is the issue that City should be most worried about in terms of a UEFA charge. Though why Abu Dhabi should disclose this to UEFA, I'm not quite sure. Especially as UEFA certainly tried to stitch us up by changing the FFP compliance spreadsheets after we submitted our 2012 accounts.

That's interesting - I hadn't seen anything of timings, or that it may have pre-dated things.
I suppose the question is whether the FFP regs actually cover something like this.

 

[mrbelfry]

The TPI from Tomkins is interesting especially when he refers to Mangala as being an £80m+ player. If you only see the value of the player you end up ignoring what they are worth. Having Phil Foden in our team as a £0 player would harm us if you take the pure monetary value as Tomkins does at the end of his article when discussing how Liverpool had to play 12 teams richer than them. Zinchenko, Zabaletta, Hart, Kompany would all be poor members of our team. Any youth academy product or Lionel Messi would be a harm as they have no TPI

In fact our team is so financially dominant that it's pointless playing games at all. If you can abstract and reduce it so much to just simply transfer fees then why bother playing any games at all? Just hand us the titles. Then it doesn't actually matter who you sign as long as you spend big money on them. Would spending £100m on Theo Walcott improve our team? Nope. Can we write off Townsend goal against us as his TPI doesn't indicate he's a player capable of scoring a worldie?

Then how do you account for a player like James Milner? 100% he's allowed to fulfil his contract and leave City and join Liverpool for free but by doing so he skews the stats. We can't deduct him from our net spend and he doesn't add a cost to the Liverpool squad calculations. He also goes to Liverpool with the benefit of City's expensively assembled background staff and medical expertise that Tomkins complains about plus the experience of big game pressure and winning mentality. He has no value but adds a whole bunch of worth to the team/squad - attributes and skills that in part he learnt at City.

How does a player like Coutinho skew the stats? Is he a player that was worth his transfer fee? Pure finance doesn't factor in good or bad purchases. The same player has a positive net spend effect on the team he left and a negative one on the team he joins. But when it's a bad purchase ie Mangala the negative effect is amplified - when its a good purchase ie Robertson the positive effect is amplified.

How does a player like Raheem Sterling skew the stats when he leaves one team to win trophies and then joins a team where he could conceivably never leave because we are satisying his career aspirations? Why are we punished for not selling our best players?

Plus no matter where you draw the line on squad value or net spend it always ignores the pre-existing inbalances that existed at the point you start counting. Tomkins makes the point himself with his analogy about the houses whilst implying we bought our mansion by overselling crappy houses and by receiving a pile of cash. Instantly dismissing all the work we've done to get to this point.

HIs arbitrary starting point just happens to be from when City were bought by ADUG - convenient for his narrative BUT ignoring that no teams were equal at that point. We were behind the teams that had benefitted from the financial doping of Premier League and Champions League cash. Teams that had benefitted from rules doping when it wasn't illegal for an owner to invest their own cash. Teams that benefitted from success doping. Teams that benefitted from great manager doping. Teams that benefitted from stadium capacity doping. Teams that benefitted from being one of the tiny, small percentage of teams playing in the premier league. Teams that might benefit from joining the league when a new TV deal comes in.

Has ADUG invested a huge amount of money in the squad? Undoubtedly. Is the club now worth more than that investment? Yes. Do we have outstanding debts or commitments to salaries that we can not fulfil? No. Is the money we make being reinvested in football? Yes.


I'm failing to see why we are so dangerous to the very fabric of football.

 

[BlueAnorak]

That's interesting - I hadn't seen anything of timings, or that it may have pre-dated things.
I suppose the question is whether the FFP regs actually cover something like this.

Mancini used to meet Khaldoon and other AD parties in Italy for various football chats. One such meeting with Kahaldoon was picked up by one of the Italian Sports papers around Novenber 2008. That's a whole year and a bit before Hughes got the push BTW, but the computer I saved the link on has since gone the way of all flesh. Its a year before FFP was even released into the wild.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

...

I'm failing to see why we are so dangerous to the very fabric of football.

I can think of one point that might be important to some.

 

[travelman]

Take a deep breath before you read this. If you want to read it?

He doesn’t pull any Scouse punches, from the first paragraph, ‘it’s only since the demolition of Watford in the FA Cup final – reducing the competition to a farce’, to, Spurs and Liverpool have reached the Champions League final and secured top four spots (and Liverpool 97 points) by playing fair financially, and in the past, selling in order to improve their squads.

Unless other clubs do the same, it’s not exactly sport. (meaning City)

He starts of being less than diplomatic, but them comes out with the well used City-FFP related accusations by Scousers, financial doping, etc.

Expect this article to appear on a RAWK forum near you soon.

You are not obliged to click on the link.


Man City and Liverpool’s Spending – A Factual ‘Transfer Price Index’ Analysis

https://tomkinstimes.com/2019/05/ma...ding-a-factual-transfer-price-index-analysis/

i should have heeded your warning

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

Somebody tell him that Liverpool failed FFP in 2013 and were set to fail again in 2015 until UEFA accepted their plea to offset £50m of stadium development costs (the Stanley Park project) which never happened. Which makes Liverpool liars as well as cheats.

He might also be reminded that if he expects City to face stiffer opposition in domestic cups a good first step might be for the coward Klopp not to bin them off, as he has done the past two seasons, because he's incapable of running a campaign on four fronts.

Straight-forward corruption, done in broad daylight, with the complicity of the British media.