UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[waspish]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

So what happens in a few years time they make up we broke the rules again? Need to kick it in to touch now

 

[Len Rum]

P1654 on this thread, 3rd post down possibly puts a different light on it. Facts as well as procedure.

And there we have it!
@lancs blue possibly blowing apart the 'process not evidence' argument as regards the CAS appeal.
I hope he's right.
I'm off to the brexit thread. Much easier life on there!

 

[moomba]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

By accepting a small fine we are branding ourselves as guilty again.

That would have a dramatic impact on the reputation of the club to willingly accept f we believe we are innocent,

 

[Marvin]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

That depends on how confident City are with their case.

If we can prove that the Etihad payments (the vast bulk of the UAE sponsorship) is in accordance with contractual agreement and was effected by the UAE state, not Sheikh Mansour, then why should MCFC accept any further fine and sanction? The hawks behind this only care about wrapping City in legal battles hoping that when Guardiola goes we will struggle and will be done with.

 

[@BluePhil8]

I was having a chat with a united friend and he wasn't taking the piss really just saying what if pep leaves, what if this happens, and my answer was, I don't give a fuck, wouldn't give a fuck if they relagated us to non league, because it would be worth it watching everyone else shit it as we got nearer and nearer back to the premier league, it would be like a fucking horror film for them, fuck em all.

Above all though I want our name cleared, once and for all

Always rags coming out with these comments 'what if, what if, what if'.

I genuinely think it stems from the fact that they choose to support United for glory, I didn't choose City, I was born in to it so whatever happens I'll enjoy the ride. If United were relagated they'd probably stop supporting them.

Firstly, f*ck off Simon Stone.

Secondly, "it was anticipated he would activate it should City fail to win their appeal" - anticipated by who, knobhead?

By Stone, the fat prick.

 

[blueinsa]

Laterme/Qatar/G14/UEFA v City/Khaldoon/UAE.

Its become very personal for a few individuals this fight.

 

[VOOMER]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

Geez, another forum member who works for UEFA and has personally seen all the relevant documents.

 

[the talisman]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

Nah, if it gets overturned we just carry on.
People have got short memories, murdering fans hasn’t hurt lfc long term, juventus came back from match fixing.
We’ll likely never be accepted into the inner circle, winning things is the best way to fight them.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

It is difficult to discuss City's appeal because we don't really know what the club has been found "guilty" of but it seems more than likely to have been inflating the value of sponsorship deal and/or disguising owner investment as sponsorship income. I would welcome what enlightenment our ever reliable expert, Prestwich_Blue can give on this. The point seems clear, however, that UEFA is acting as a governing/regulatory body acting in the interestes of ... "the game" to ensure fair competition and the financial stability of ... well, who exactly. This appears to me to be an area where UEFA is obviously extremely vulnerable indeed. I think CAS must consider evidence in the area of sponsorship very seriously but I'm sure the ECJ certainly would. UEFA cannot claim, and must not be allowed to claim, that they are acting as a governing body in the area of sponsorship. Yesterday we heard the opinion of a learned counsel that the process followed was a complete denial of due process and this is a serious contribution but he also argued that there is no precedent for UEFA judging "fair market value". But UEFA is not a competent body to judge or pass sentence in such matters since it is not acting as a governing body but as a commercial competitor. UEFA's CL has a long list of sponsors and it does not allow any club to use any other sponsor on CL occasions. UEFA has negotiated these deals wit commercial enterprises and has put itself in a very advantageous position to negotiate them. A commercial rival may not then pass judgement on the value of another enterprise's sponsorship. Is UEFA sponsored by Etihad?!! Do any airlines sponsor UEFA?!! Either way UEFA is a commercial rival not a governing body.

 

[KS55]

But he is the Deputy PM of the Government? so while he may not be a direct executive or shareholder he does have a vested interest in Etihad as a company. Let's be honest here SM has been in a position to inject cash into Etihad, hasn't he? now as long as he didn't inject that cash from ADUG then there shouldn't be an issue should there? although that is technically exploiting a loophole. In my opinion, what City is defending here is a technicality, whether they will win their appeal on that basis I don't know but let us all be sensible here the UAE has several big organizations that have strong links to the Government of which SM is the Deputy PM.

I don't doubt for one minute that SM has injected cash into Etihad but where that money came from is the problem along with the unraveling the complexity of government business.

Mansour is not a member of the gov, the Executive Council. He sits on important quangos and is a member of the royal family. The title of DPM is honorific.

 

[@BluePhil8]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

Would you accept a plea deal for a crime you didn't commit? Or would you fight tooth and nail to clear yourself?

 

[Marvin]

They have nailed their colours so strongly and firmly to the mast, i don't think there is any way back for them now.

'PB's document' should be discussed by the football-finance experts. It's central to UEFA's case against City. Was the UAE sponsorship legitimate?

 

[KS55]

It is difficult to discuss City's appeal because we don't really know what the club has been found "guilty" of but it seems more than likely to have been inflating the value of sponsorship deal and/or disguising owner investment as sponsorship income. I would welcome what enlightenment our ever reliable expert, Prestwich_Blue can give on this. The point seems clear, however, that UEFA is acting as a governing/regulatory body acting in the interestes of ... "the game" to ensure fair competition and the financial stability of ... well, who exactly. This appears to me to be an area where UEFA is obviously extremely vulnerable indeed. I think CAS must consider evidence in the area of sponsorship very seriously but I'm sure the ECJ certainly would. UEFA cannot claim, and must not be allowed to claim, that they are acting as a governing body in the area of sponsorship. Yesterday we heard the opinion of a learned counsel that the process followed was a complete denial of due process and this is a serious contribution but he also argued that there is no precedent for UEFA judging "fair market value". But UEFA is not a competent body to judge or pass sentence in such matters since it is not acting as a governing body but as a commercial competitor. UEFA's CL has a long list of sponsors and it does not allow any club to use any other sponsor on CL occasions. UEFA has negotiated these deals wit commercial enterprises and has put itself in a very advantageous position to negotiate them. A commercial rival may not then pass judgement on the value of another enterprise's sponsorship. Is UEFA sponsored by Etihad?!! Do any airlines sponsor UEFA?!! Either way UEFA is a commercial rival not a governing body.

That lawyer was wrong about "fair market value". See PSG case.

 

[Citizen Green]

The video with @Prestwich_Blue has certainly put my mind at ease with the situation, thank you for explaining it so clearly and precisely, I think it'll help a lot of blues understand what UEFA have done and why. It also gives real clarity on the way we have been treated unfairly and City's hopeful focus on exoneration, not just avoiding the punishment.

Do you have a link to this? Is it the one with Cheeseman?

 

[Gordyola]

But he is the Deputy PM of the Government? so while he may not be a direct executive or shareholder he does have a vested interest in Etihad as a company. Let's be honest here SM has been in a position to inject cash into Etihad, hasn't he? now as long as he didn't inject that cash from ADUG then there shouldn't be an issue should there? although that is technically exploiting a loophole. In my opinion, what City is defending here is a technicality, whether they will win their appeal on that basis I don't know but let us all be sensible here the UAE has several big organizations that have strong links to the Government of which SM is the Deputy PM.

I don't doubt for one minute that SM has injected cash into Etihad but where that money came from is the problem along with the unraveling the complexity of government business.

Yes he is deputy PM but has no control over Etihad as a company

Let's be honest here SM has been in a position to inject cash into Etihad, hasn't he? NO

He does have a vested interest in Etihad as a company No you said it yourself so while he may not be a direct executive or shareholder

 

[jim tolmies perm]

There is a level of confidence because 99.9% of people haven't got a fucking clue, they keep mentioning army of lawyers, and let the battle commence, they go on as if UEFA are using Noreen down the road coz she's good with words, UEFA obviously have something on us, we will see, and hopefully we can prove ourselves

Don't think too many on here believe numpties are running UEFA'S legal dept but the fact that it was a last minute rush job and that the hawks (we know who they are) seem to have backed the mud sticking strategy might suggest their backs are not totally covered
All will be revealed in the fullness .....

Just as an aside Syed seems to have aligned himself with that cooky band of ex commo now left wing libertarians(whatever that is) such as Institute for Ideas, Spiked etc
Their hatred of anything emanating from the Arabian peninsula is no unguarded secret

 

[ctid1894]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

I see it completely the opposite way, by accepting a reduced punishment we are accepting guilt, which means we are accepting being called cheats. By fighting this in the courts, however long it takes, we can prove that we did NOT cheat.

If it gets proven the other way and we did cheat, then at least everything is transparent and open. We may have understood or interpreted certain rules in a different way, at least we'll know for future reference and be able to comply with the rules going forward.

I trust Mansour and Khaldoon, everything they have said so far they've done and more, we as fans have absolutely no right not to give them the benefit of the doubt and trust them until proven otherwise. UEFA's ruling is nothing more than UEFA's wish, they've been judge, jury and executioner in this process so far.

 

[KS55]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

We don't know what deal was offered. Maybe it required us to admit certain charges.

 

[FrankSwift1]

Would you accept a plea deal for a crime you didn't commit? Or would you fight tooth and nail to clear yourself?

If the choice was accept a small fine or spend time in prison 100% I would.

 

[ctid1894]

Do you have a link to this? Is it the one with Cheeseman?

Page 1641, and yes it is.