UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%
  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%
  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%

  • Total voters
    1,499
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I've never been one for conspiracy theories, but it's clear that there's a concerted attempt from powerful sources in football, abetted by compliant allies in the media, to saw City off at the knees. No coincidence that it comes when we've reached a point at which, on and off the field, we've created a set-up giving us a decent opportunity to be the most successful club in England over an extended period.

No one, as far as I've seen, has so far looked at what the accusations against us mean. The fundamental allegation which UEFA are now investigating is essentially that MCFC concealed shareholder funding from its auditor under the guise of bogus sponsorship contracts and then presented the auditor's opinions to UEFA with a view to avoiding or mitigating punishment for a breach financial regulations. When they say we're 'cheats', that's what they're saying we've done.

I'm going to get a bit legal here. Apologies for that, but I can't avoid it. There's an offence under section 17 of the Theft Act under which it's a criminal offence punishable by up to seven years' imprisonment if "a person dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another … makes use of any account, or any such record or document as aforesaid, which to his knowledge is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular": https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/17. Further, section 18 of the same Act clarifies that "offence committed by a body corporate under section 17 of this Act is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of any director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or any person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence, and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly": https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/18.

To my reading, that quite clearly would cover MCFC knowingly providing false documents to UEFA to avoid a fine or get a lesser one. So, in other words, the corollary of the allegation made against us by Der Spiegel and widely repeated over several months throughout the UK media is that the City directors who dealt with UEFA have committed a serious dishonesty-based criminal offence for which the punishment can be a lengthy term in jail.

Let's look at who they're accusing of that. MCFC's directors include Simon Pearce and Khaldoon, both key figures in government circles in the UAE. But more than that, the offence applies to any "other similar officer of the body corporate". To my mind, though I can't find case law on the point, this is likely to include what under UK company law is called a "shadow director". And this makes it even more interesting.

A shadow director, in relation to a company, is "a person in accordance with whose directions or instructions the directors of the company are accustomed to act". That will include Mansour - and, if our detractors are correct that Mansour is merely a front for the emirate of Abu Dhabi, it could go higher than that. And it seems to me highly likely that, given the reputational issues involved, that someone very senior in Abu Dhabi will have been involved in giving MCFC's directors a steer with respect to our FFP issues.

So will they have twigged back in Abu Dhabi that senior government figures and potentially even one or more members of the ruling family are being labelled criminal fraudsters by that august institution, the British press, egged on by our footballing enemies? Bet your fucking life they will. And that makes it personal.

Which gives rise to the question of how they'll react. Now, we've noted - to the frustration of many on here, including me - that our owner and stakeholders seem to dictate a rather nicey-nicey approach as a preference, even in situations where many fans might prefer us to show a bit more aggression. I don't know anything about Emirati business and culture so stand to be corrected by anyone who does, but I'm led to believe that they can, in contrast to their preferred mode of operation, they can be utterly ruthless when they feel they've been provoked.

In my opinion, that's where we are now. I don't, unlike one post I saw this morning, worry that our owners and stakeholders will lose heart. In my opinion, the gloves will come off. I'm not saying that we'll emerge unscathed, and, with the powerful forces ranged against MCFC, there's scope for us to suffer tremendous damage. But I doubt our owners/stakeholders will take this lying down.

I don't know how it will pan out, but I think it could get nasty. And I'd bet heavily that if, in the end, we do go down, we'll take others down with us.


Excellent post. Very in-depth for Saturday morning.

But yes, I can confirm the Emirati business is ruthless. Most, I’m talking nearly all the leading figures have spent at least part of their education in the U.S. Learning how to cut opposition off at their knees.

It don’t think it will get anywhere near the stages required for that level of muscle flexing. I think UEFA are going through the motions as they’d look so weak if they did nothing. I expect words of caution, a murky unclear explanation that nothing can be proven and we’re clear for now, but we will continue to monitor future deals.
 
I agree that the gloves are off butthete are two things wrong with your argument.

1. Furnishing UEFA with false information is not, under any circumstances a criminal offence and;

2. The case law on shadow directors is extremely complex and it has been held that just being the major shareholder doesn't make a person or company a shadow director.

I must admit, I looked only at the wording of the provisions and some short law firm commentaries that are available online, which seemed to me to fit the situation in question. I had no access to more authoritative sources or case law.

In any case, I'm sure they'll be incensed by the media reporting, which implies egregious dishonesty, whether or not the acts they're accused of are criminal.
 
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UEFA is doing this to appease the EURO elites. Nothing will happen. UEFA and other football entities are corrupt as hell and definitely don't want the smoke with City. These organizations have too many skeletons in their closets. I think we will get minimal punishment to be honest so I'm not worried.
For yourself and others thinking we'll get anything from a slap on the wrists to expulsion from all competitions, they have to find us guilty of something first. That's the way it works despite what social media and the main stream media would like you to believe.
 
Excellent post. Very in-depth for Saturday morning.

But yes, I can confirm the Emirati business is ruthless. Most, I’m talking nearly all the leading figures have spent at least part of their education in the U.S. Learning how to cut opposition off at their knees.

It don’t think it will get anywhere near the stages required for that level of muscle flexing. I think UEFA are going through the motions as they’d look so weak if they did nothing. I expect words of caution, a murky unclear explanation that nothing can be proven and we’re clear for now, but we will continue to monitor future deals.

I agree and given that it’s already been pointed out that any punishment (if there is one) cannot involve a transfer ban, our enemies have pushed for an investigation by the FA who can.

If that’s the case at least the kids will get a bigger opportunity to play for the first team - silver linings and all that!
 


Will be all the sweeter when we win the quadruple



Liverpool were themselves investigated for a breach of the FFP rules in 2015, but that was due to financial mismanagement prior to the current owner’s takeover – a direct consequence of costly expenses accrued during the ill-fated reign of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr as they forlornly pursued a new stadium on Stanley Park.

Uefa accepted Liverpool’s mitigation and cleared the club’s owners of any rule breach.

Lol.

Ah well, their rule breach was only down to 'financial mismanagement' so no problem there.
 
What's happened overnight?

I went to bed reading that UEFA want to look at our emails in relation to Der Spiegel leaks, which everyone on here was fighting off, as inadmissible.

Also, that we'd paid £200k for Jadon Sancho, that might incur a transfer window ban.

Then this morning the thread is doom, gloom and tragedy. The club to be disavowed, that everyone is banned from football activities or going to jail, KDB to Madrid with Neymar and Pep Guardiola has just signed for Juventus.

So, What's happened overnight?
Marvin :-)
M
 
Liverpool were themselves investigated for a breach of the FFP rules in 2015, but that was due to financial mismanagement prior to the current owner’s takeover – a direct consequence of costly expenses accrued during the ill-fated reign of Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr as they forlornly pursued a new stadium on Stanley Park.

Uefa accepted Liverpool’s mitigation and cleared the club’s owners of any rule breach.

Lol.

Ah well, their rule breach was only down to 'financial mismanagement' so no problem there.
It’s the use of the word ‘flaunting’ that annoys me.
The press always add hyperbole to our stories to make them sound worse than they are, almost an implied guilt that we have done something wrong, ie flaunting, and have yet to be found out and punished for it.
 
City has always been there, but it annoys me that it's no longer about the football. The match will finish I'll walk out of the gates at 7.30pm or whatever ridiculous time it will be it will be into the real world, turn on my phone and there it will be. No escaping from it.

I'm OK but thank's for thinking about me. That was nice of you but I think it's best City fans adjust to what's ahead.
Do you mind if some of us wait until after the investigations have finished before considering the least painful form of suicide?


Oh and BTW, wipe your fanny and turn off social media notifications, your quality of life will improve perceptibly.
 
I think the fear is due to everyone saying relax we have done nothing wrong, stop panicking the last time we faced similar then we still got hammered.

I hope this time we have our house in order and we are watertight but you can understand the unease, we have been here before.

If we were watertight I think we would reacted much more aggressively when the story broke. Any organisation that had been subject to accusations that could seriously damage its reputation and prospects would immediately respond in the strongest possible terms as soon as possible if those accusations were completely unfounded. I can't see what we had to gain by adopting such a low key response if we were in a position to kill the story.

Our response has been more like that of an accused whose lawyer has advised them to "say as little as possible that might incriminate you and make them prove it". Which might be good advice given the illegality of the emails.
 
Quintuple
I like that little paragraph

Liverpool’s principal owner John W Henry has long been a chief advocate of FFP – his expectation that the rules would be stringently implemented was one of his primary motivations for becoming involved in European football. There will be an expectation that any wrongdoing results in severe sanctions.

Yeah, right John.
Sure it wasn't that between yourselves and RBS, you got them for about 50% of their worth?
 
I'm just tired of this. I just want to support my club and revel in the glory of this great side. I love football and I love City but I am drained this morning because I know a long torturous road likes ahead and I am going to be dragged through every pot-hole with my club whether I like it or not.

I just wish I could carry on as normal on a match day but today feels different. I am afraid my comments are not to be trusted but it's what I feel. I can't express my thoughts but I love my club just as you all do, and though no fault of our own we are about to be drawn into the mixer and I can not help but yelp before I dive in.

Sorry in an hour or two the blackness the stupidity will pass.

A long torturous road certainly lies ahead: I've got to drive up the part of the M6 that runs from Birmingham on my trip to the Etihad today.
 
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Along torturous road certainly lies ahead: I've got to drive up the part of the M6 that runs from Birmingham on my trip to the Etihad today.

Wouldn't bother mate, all that is left is a carcass of the club.
 
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It’s the use of the word ‘flaunting’ that annoys me.
The press always add hyperbole to our stories to make them sound worse than they are, almost an implied guilt that we have done something wrong, ie flaunting, and have yet to be found out and punished for it.

Yes there are a few new phrases I’ve picked up on....but my favourite

Financial cheating
 
Do you mind if some of us wait until after the investigations have finished before considering the least painful form of suicide?


Oh and BTW, wipe your fanny and turn off social media notifications, your quality of life will improve perceptibly.
Stay in your City bubble if you like for a little longer. We were all in it at some time but it will burst and then you'll be angry.
 
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