UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[BlueRockape]

Spot the City transfer in this list of the 15 largest ever transfers.

R Player From To Position Fee
(€ mln) Fee
(£ mln) Year Year of birth Reference
1 Neymar Barcelona Paris Saint-Germain Forward €222 £198 2017 1992 [2][6][7][4][5]
2 Kylian Mbappé Monaco Paris Saint-Germain Forward €135[a] £116 2018 1998 [8]
3 Philippe Coutinho Liverpool Barcelona Midfielder €120[c] £106 2018 1992 [9]
4 Ousmane Dembélé Borussia Dortmund Barcelona Forward €105[d] £97 2017 1997 [10][11][12]
Paul Pogba Juventus Manchester United Midfielder €105[e] £89 2016 1993 [13][14][15][16]
6 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid Juventus Forward €100[f] £88 2018 1985 [17]
7 Gareth Bale Tottenham Hotspur Real Madrid Forward €100 £86 2013 1989 [18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]
8 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United Real Madrid Forward €94 £80 2009 1985 [26][27][28]
9 Gonzalo Higuaín Napoli Juventus Striker €90 £75.3 2016 1987 [29][30][31]
10 Romelu Lukaku Everton Manchester United Striker €85 £75[g] 2017 1993 [32][33][34][35]
11 Virgil van Dijk Southampton Liverpool Defender €84.5 £75 2018 1991 [36]
12 Luis Suárez Liverpool Barcelona Striker €82.3 £65 2014 1987 [37]
13 Lucas Hernandez Atlético Madrid Bayern Munich Defender €80 £70 2019 1996 [38]
13 Kepa Arrizabalaga Athletic Bilbao Chelsea Goalkeeper €80[h] £71.6 2018 1994 [39][40]
14 Zinedine Zidane Juventus Real Madrid Midfielder €77.5 £46.6 2001 1972 [42][43][44]
15 James Rodríguez Monaco Real Madrid Midfielder €76 £63 2014 1991 [45][46][47][48]

Really reinforces his argument!

Interestingly, number 14 happened in 2001. Wonder what Tebas had to say about that at the time.

This would make a great banner

 

[blue b4 the moon]

That’s why Journalists are all shit.

All the info they need to refute Tebas’s claims, and pen a fair and unbiased article, is out there. But it goes doesn't then narrative, and won’t attract the clicks from the Rags, Scouser’s, and Tarquin’s. Better to keep the myth that City are destroying European football.

Even looking at the bigger picture is beyond them. Tebas & his like want a weak English game, make no mistake they want Italy, Germany & Spain at the top & making the money. They I feel only 'put up' with rags/dips.

Taking us down which could effect the money in the English game could very well bite all English clubs on the arse in the years to come. Even if this last statement isn't true its a line they could use to try and actually get everyone together & on the same page.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Spot the City transfer in this list of the 15 largest ever transfers.

R Player From To Position Fee
(€ mln) Fee
(£ mln) Year Year of birth Reference
1 Neymar Barcelona Paris Saint-Germain Forward €222 £198 2017 1992 [2][6][7][4][5]
2 Kylian Mbappé Monaco Paris Saint-Germain Forward €135[a] £116 2018 1998 [8]
3 Philippe Coutinho Liverpool Barcelona Midfielder €120[c] £106 2018 1992 [9]
4 Ousmane Dembélé Borussia Dortmund Barcelona Forward €105[d] £97 2017 1997 [10][11][12]
Paul Pogba Juventus Manchester United Midfielder €105[e] £89 2016 1993 [13][14][15][16]
6 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid Juventus Forward €100[f] £88 2018 1985 [17]
7 Gareth Bale Tottenham Hotspur Real Madrid Forward €100 £86 2013 1989 [18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]
8 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United Real Madrid Forward €94 £80 2009 1985 [26][27][28]
9 Gonzalo Higuaín Napoli Juventus Striker €90 £75.3 2016 1987 [29][30][31]
10 Romelu Lukaku Everton Manchester United Striker €85 £75[g] 2017 1993 [32][33][34][35]
11 Virgil van Dijk Southampton Liverpool Defender €84.5 £75 2018 1991 [36]
12 Luis Suárez Liverpool Barcelona Striker €82.3 £65 2014 1987 [37]
13 Lucas Hernandez Atlético Madrid Bayern Munich Defender €80 £70 2019 1996 [38]
13 Kepa Arrizabalaga Athletic Bilbao Chelsea Goalkeeper €80[h] £71.6 2018 1994 [39][40]
14 Zinedine Zidane Juventus Real Madrid Midfielder €77.5 £46.6 2001 1972 [42][43][44]
15 James Rodríguez Monaco Real Madrid Midfielder €76 £63 2014 1991 [45][46][47][48]

Really reinforces his argument!

Interestingly, number 14 happened in 2001. Wonder what Tebas had to say about that at the time.

This site has the transfer fees adjusted to as-of today values. Makes for interesting reading ... https://www.totallymoney.com/content/transfer-index/data/ (click on view table then last column twice to sort by value). We come in 12th, 13th, 16th & 18th in the top 25.

This article from Sky links to this table but adds a bit more narrative to it and also gives overall spend since 1992 per club in today's money (spoiler - Liverpool come second again behind Chelsea) ... https://www.skysports.com/football/...sive-premier-league-transfers-in-todays-money

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

This site has the transfer fees adjusted to as-of today values. Makes for interesting reading ... https://www.totallymoney.com/content/transfer-index/data/ (click on view table then last column twice to sort by value). We come in 12th, 13th, 16th & 18th in the top 25.

This article from Sky links to this table but adds a bit more narrative to it and also gives overall spend since 1992 per club in today's money (spoiler - Liverpool come second again behind Chelsea) ... https://www.skysports.com/football/...sive-premier-league-transfers-in-todays-money

Liverpool came second again.

They just never seem to get a break do they

 

[toffee balls]

This would make a great banner

you can carry it.

 

[BlueRockape]

you can carry it.

Hay I only Sugested it ;)

 

[MillionMilesAway]

This site has the transfer fees adjusted to as-of today values. Makes for interesting reading ... https://www.totallymoney.com/content/transfer-index/data/ (click on view table then last column twice to sort by value). We come in 12th, 13th, 16th & 18th in the top 25.

This article from Sky links to this table but adds a bit more narrative to it and also gives overall spend since 1992 per club in today's money (spoiler - Liverpool come second again behind Chelsea) ... https://www.skysports.com/football/...sive-premier-league-transfers-in-todays-money

That's a neat site - takes transfermarkt data and applies a currency exchange. As such, I assume it's taking the fixed euro fee from transfermarkt, and not the variable £ fee that is regularly used by illiterate hacks.

Edit: just checked, and the euro base level is important because it makes 'today's value' in sterling less than purchase price a year ago - the drop in exchange rate has a larger effect that whatever year-on-year multiplier they are using.

 

[sktooblue]

Spot the City transfer in this list of the 15 largest ever transfers.

R Player From To Position Fee
(€ mln) Fee
(£ mln) Year Year of birth Reference
1 Neymar Barcelona Paris Saint-Germain Forward €222 £198 2017 1992 [2][6][7][4][5]
2 Kylian Mbappé Monaco Paris Saint-Germain Forward €135[a] £116 2018 1998 [8]
3 Philippe Coutinho Liverpool Barcelona Midfielder €120[c] £106 2018 1992 [9]
4 Ousmane Dembélé Borussia Dortmund Barcelona Forward €105[d] £97 2017 1997 [10][11][12]
Paul Pogba Juventus Manchester United Midfielder €105[e] £89 2016 1993 [13][14][15][16]
6 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid Juventus Forward €100[f] £88 2018 1985 [17]
7 Gareth Bale Tottenham Hotspur Real Madrid Forward €100 £86 2013 1989 [18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]
8 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United Real Madrid Forward €94 £80 2009 1985 [26][27][28]
9 Gonzalo Higuaín Napoli Juventus Striker €90 £75.3 2016 1987 [29][30][31]
10 Romelu Lukaku Everton Manchester United Striker €85 £75[g] 2017 1993 [32][33][34][35]
11 Virgil van Dijk Southampton Liverpool Defender €84.5 £75 2018 1991 [36]
12 Luis Suárez Liverpool Barcelona Striker €82.3 £65 2014 1987 [37]
13 Lucas Hernandez Atlético Madrid Bayern Munich Defender €80 £70 2019 1996 [38]
13 Kepa Arrizabalaga Athletic Bilbao Chelsea Goalkeeper €80[h] £71.6 2018 1994 [39][40]
14 Zinedine Zidane Juventus Real Madrid Midfielder €77.5 £46.6 2001 1972 [42][43][44]
15 James Rodríguez Monaco Real Madrid Midfielder €76 £63 2014 1991 [45][46][47][48]

In 11 out of those 15 deals, a Spanish side were either the buying or the selling club - absolute hypocrisy but unfortunately too difficult for our investigative press to uncover and expose.
Hypocrisy on all sides!!

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

That's a neat site - takes transfermarkt data and applies a currency exchange. As such, I assume it's taking the fixed euro fee from transfermarkt, and not the variable £ fee that is regularly used by illiterate hacks.

I don't know where transfermarkt get their data but it's probably as close as we're going to get. It takes the avg transfer per player per season and applies that as the 'inflation' from one season to another. This doesn't quite get City out of the blame game as they will just say our bulk buying of players will be pushing up this avg in recent years.

The thing that got me from Tebas (I think it was him) was how he said the 'royalty' clubs were having to force prices up for City and PSG to enable them to compete/stay relevant, then accusing us of causing the inflation in the market.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I don't know where transfermarkt get their data but it's probably as close as we're going to get. It takes the avg transfer per player per season and applies that as the 'inflation' from one season to another. This doesn't quite get City out of the blame game as they will just say our bulk buying of players will be pushing up this avg in recent years.

The thing that got me from Tebas (I think it was him) was how he said the 'royalty' clubs were having to force prices up for City and PSG to enable them to compete/stay relevant, then accusing us of causing the inflation in the market.

Yes, Tebas' comments (as described, I don't think I've seen them) do seem to be a party line to trot out, regardless of truth. The only positions we've really inflated is fullback!

Thanks for the notes on how they have worked out inflation - I hadn't looked too closely.

From what I can tell, Transfermarkt record a fee at the time in euros, which is usually pretty accurate. As it's a German site, it uses the euro as it's base, and the sterling value found on the .co.uk version is essentially a spot rate of that euro value.

20M euros at 1.4 euro:£ is 15M sterling approx
20M euros at 1.2 euro:£ is 17M sterling approx - the spot rate in sterling is higher than the actual transfer fee (the spot rate in euros is obviously unchanged)

Journalists regularly look and quote the current spot value, which is why some costs are quoted too high. If the figures help the hack's storyline, they don't bother to make sure they are right.

 

[Delboy352]

What I find ironic is that journalists (and I use that term very loosely) frequently spout off about us on Sky. The same Sky that was haemorrhaging millions a day in its early days, but was kept afloat by its owner Rupert Murdoch, the same Rupert Murdoch that of course owns News Corp which owns The Times, Sunday Times and The Sun (and once owned of course The News of the World).

 

[razman]

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

How much did Yaya cost us?
Don’t see him on any of those lists or am I blind.
What s steal he was. And Vinny and Silva.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

How much did Yaya cost us?
Don’t see him on any of those lists or am I blind.
What s steal he was. And Vinny and Silva.

The TotalMoney site has him at £27M, with the inflated number at around £56M.

https://www.totallymoney.com/content/transfer-index/data/

Use the Filter option "To" and select City.

It's not quite complete though - no Glauber Berti.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Why are they asking Sterling or any player for that matter about FFP allegations?

You don't see them asking shelf stackers in Tesco what they think amount the financial implications of a potential takeover of Waitrose do you.

This is the standard reply I would expect from either. "Yeah I know stuff is going on but it doesn't concern me, I have full confidence in the owners and management they'll do whats best for me and the company"

 

[King KdB of Belgium]

Should UEFA try and ban us from the Champions League, we will I have no doubt about it, that we will take this straight to CAS. This is the body which has the say on all sporting matters.

However if I was in charge of dealing with UEFA from City's point of view, I would be issuing the governing body of UEFA a summons for data theft. There is no way that they can say that they have not stolen any of our data, because they have used that same data that was stolen to find us guilty of breaching the FFP code of conduct. Therefore we are looking for damages in the sum off £250 million. Then I would go after Der Speigel and go for the exact same sum of £250 million damages for the good name of our club. Shoul dthis bankrupt Der Speigel so be it.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

All rather too simplistic im afraid Mr Belgium - you don't seem to understand the precis of the case.
Uefa don't have the data - they got their information from Der Spiegel
Der Spiegel whilst having access to the material through Football Leaks don't own it and claim German press privileges for acting solely as a whistleblower (reporting the info)

I doubt either would be actionable in a civil court.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

All rather too simplistic im afraid Mr Belgium - you don't seem to understand the precis of the case.
Uefa don't have the data - they got their information from Der Spiegel
Der Spiegel whilst having access to the material through Football Leaks don't own it and claim German press privileges for acting solely as a whistleblower (reporting the info)

I doubt either would be actionable in a civil court.

Do we have access to the data or are City just going off what UEFA say they’ve been told by Der Spiegel, who have been shown the data.

All very third or 4th hand if this is the case.
Very flimsy if it ever did get to a court of law. Isn’t evidence collect supposed to be made available to both parties.

 

[Fallingbostel Blue]

All rather too simplistic im afraid Mr Belgium - you don't seem to understand the precis of the case.
Uefa don't have the data - they got their information from Der Spiegel
Der Spiegel whilst having access to the material through Football Leaks don't own it and claim German press privileges for acting solely as a whistleblower (reporting the info)

I doubt either would be actionable in a civil court.

What happens to this evidence if Rui Pinto gets found guilty of extortion in a court of law? Is it still admissable or will it get destroyed? Am I right in thinking if he has received any cash for this information then he is not given "Whistleblower Status". The constant in this is that our Image and Reputation has been tarnised even if we are not convicted.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Do we have access to the data or are City just going off what UEFA say they’ve been told by Der Spiegel, who have been shown the data.

All very third or 4th hand if this is the case.
Very flimsy if it ever did get to a court of law. Isn’t evidence collect supposed to be made available to both parties.

Regarding access, Its difficult to say without any details of the investigation. I wrote a post only yesterday making exactly those considerations.
Indeed in a criminal court case all evidence should be submitted for examination by defendants counsel prior to trial and visa versa (except in unusual or exceptional cases at the judges discretion)
I suggest it goes similar what I stated in an earlier post where I made ref to something Tolmie wrote.
Mark Goddards iterations are interesting (see page 167 of this thread) in respect of the likely investigative process employed by Uefa investigators and I think it doesn't take a great leap for normal folk to read the Der Spiegel allegations and formulate the necessary questions to put to City.

Mark Goddard was in charge of Fofa's Transfer Matching system database in 201,and was involved in many investigations into clubs, says cleaning up the game justifies using evidence wherever it can be found.

Tolmie extract
He says Uefa should do the same in investigating Manchester City over FFFP matters.

Goddard reveals: "We knew he (Pinto) was getting primary source material, and having verified the quality and veracity of those documents, we were thinking "Jesus, this helps us".

"Any particular information (in the leaks) that would help us in pursuing a particular line of inquiry, we would use that to build a picture, and build a case. (We were saying to the clubs) it's not like we don't trust you, we're just requiring you to prove what you've got. "

Goddard attempts to cover his arse by insisting Fifa would not start disciplinary proceedings based on Leaks documents alone (yeah, right) "But we would ready the documents and think "Wow, and then go and ask a question. We could ask did you guys do blah blah blah and blah?, and they'd sit there ... Going "Holy shit, how did you know how to ask that? (we said) it's didn't matter how we knew how to ask that. Just answer the question."

Goddard is now an independent consultant and pushed for changes at Uefa to force all clubs to make public all aspects of transfers.