UK far right trouble

[meltonblue]

That just sounds like a justice system based purely on emotion rather than rules, and probably why Starmer's paying the price for it politically with his ratings.

The rule of law needs to be based on rules not vengeance or emotion, and needs to be applied equally across the board.

The justice system is entirely based on the rules and the sentencing guidelines in place.

That Starmer is being remotely blamed for sentencing guidelines that long predate his appointment just shows how some bad actors are politicising it for their own benefit and there’s plenty that are more than happy to believe it.

 

[stonerblue]

Starmer is a victim of the response by the police, CPS, and judiciary to the riots. They did far more to prove two-tier policing than anything any right-wing protester could ever say, and he's paying the price for it with his political capital.

I haven't mentioned anything about any airport incident but I'm assuming that's the one where the coppers were assaulted and no charges were brought? I wouldn't hold your breath for charges to be brought and regardless of that case, I think people have seen enough to make their mind up about whether the justice system treats everyone equally.

Do you really think nobody will be charged for the airport scrap?

 

[KDB Fan]

Do we lock them up for life?

Would you rather a paedophile is reformed or released in a few years time and more likely to reoffend?

Depends on the severity of the crime.

If your biggest concern is criminals coming into contact with other criminals then prisons wouldn't exist and nobody would ever get locked up.

Prisons should be for the most serious offenders and child abusers come into that category as do criminals with knives. Speech offenders less so.

 

[KDB Fan]

The justice system is entirely based on the rules and the sentencing guidelines in place.

That Starmer is being remotely blamed for sentencing guidelines that long predate his appointment just shows how some bad actors are politicising it for their own benefit and there’s plenty that are more than happy to believe it.

That's an extremely naive view of the justice system in my opinion. Judges have a lot of discretion with the sentences they hand down (as we're seeing now), and even when they don't, they often just choose to ignore the guidelines anyway.

This is partly why very few go to prison for possession of knives, despite the acute crisis the country faces regarding knife crime.

Steve Hartshorn, chair of the police federation, said: “Decisions on sentencing guidelines appear to be knee-jerk reactions, driven by budget and the availability of prison places rather than by logic or strategy, which hamstrings the ability of judges to pass appropriate sentences.”

He claimed a failure by judges and magistrates not to back up the work of police officers after identifying and arresting those carrying knives was a factor in a recent survey that found more than nine in 10 officers were suffering from low morale.

Mr Hartshorn also called for a royal commission – a type of committee appointed to investigate an issue – on the criminal justice system and public security, adding: “It is no wonder the victims and the wider public feel let down.”

Revealed: Repeat knife offenders freed onto streets despite two-strike crackdown

Exclusive: The Police Federation of England and Wales calls for a royal commission as analysis of figures by The Independent reveals nearly four in 10 repeat knife offenders are spared immediate prison sentences

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Depends on the severity of the crime.

If your biggest concern is criminals coming into contact with other criminals then prisons wouldn't exist and nobody would ever get locked up.

Prisons should be for the most serious offenders and child abusers come into that category as do criminals with knives. Speech offenders less so.

You keep saying this but it's just you restating this.

At that specific point in time those people were cowardly stoking up violence.

Do you think producing and publishing a paedophile guide is less severe than Huw Edwards getting sent images on WhatsApp?

Or is that protected speech in your world?

 

[KDB Fan]

Do you really think nobody will be charged for the airport scrap?

No I don't. What new evidence is gonna come to light after all this time? None. They already have the crime on camera so what else are they waiting for...A confession?

Even if they do get charged, the delay to prosecute is in itself an example of two-tier justice. Not many people would get the privilege of however many months of freedom in the wake of the incident if they'd broke a copper's nose on camera.

 

[meltonblue]

That's an extremely naive view of the justice system in my opinion. Judges have a lot of discretion with the sentences they hand down (as we're seeing now), and even when they don't, they often just choose to ignore the guidelines anyway.

This is partly why very few go to prison for possession of knives, despite the acute crisis the country faces regarding knife crime.

Revealed: Repeat knife offenders freed onto streets despite two-strike crackdown

Exclusive: The Police Federation of England and Wales calls for a royal commission as analysis of figures by The Independent reveals nearly four in 10 repeat knife offenders are spared immediate prison sentences

www.independent.co.uk

Which ones are we seeing now that don’t fit the sentencing criteria?

Did you read the full article you posted there?

 

[stonerblue]

No I don't. What new evidence is gonna come to light after all this time? None. They already have the crime on camera so what else are they waiting for...A confession?

Even if they do get charged, the delay to prosecute is in itself an example of two-tier justice. Not many people would get the privilege of however many months of freedom in the wake of the incident if they'd broke a copper's nose on camera.

So you think there will be a prosecution but you want it to be quicker?
And because it's taking ages it means we have two tier policing?

 

[KDB Fan]

Which ones are we seeing now that don’t fit the sentencing criteria?

Did you read the full article you posted there?

Yep I read the article which shows very clearly, with figures to boot, that judges are going rogue against the wishes of Parliament and two different Acts Of Parliament that were drafted to crackdown on knife crime more harshly.

They have a lot of discretion and use that discretion to pass sentences that sometimes support or offend our sense of justice but the idea the justice system is 'entirely based on the rules and sentencing guidelines' is not the reality in my opinion.

I would argue almost none of the rioters' cases fit the sentencing criteria as if it's a simple, mathematical process.

 

[KDB Fan]

So you think there will be a prosecution but you want it to be quicker?
And because it's taking ages it means we have two tier policing?

No I don't think there will be a prosecution.

If I'm wrong, I still think it's inexcusable there's been such a delay when the crime is on camera.