UK far right trouble

meltonblue said:
Ok so I just watched the video. There is no chance he’d get charged for racial incitement on that, because he’s not. He’s used a racist insult but that’s it. You could at a stretch argue it’s inciting hatred towards Reform party candidates as that is who he is referring to, calling them white devils, but then he doesn’t say he’s going to do anything to them as a collective.

That will also be why he wasn’t arrested for inciting racial hatred, he was arrested for the death threat directly in the second video. Sentencing guidelines for that are here -

Threats to kill – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

In terms of the delay, Danczuk says he hasn’t been prosecuted yet so I’m assuming he’s been charged but is one of the tens of thousands in the courts backlogs.
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I would argue he is intending to incite racial hatred by using racially hateful language, and it doesn't matter if it's Reform candidates, if you use a racial slur to describe a group of black accountants and threaten one of them with murder for example, you can't hide behind the defence of 'it was aimed at accountants'. He distributed the material online so he quite clearly meets the requirements for the offence. Especially when you take account of how flexible the courts have been in interpreting the offence previously e.g. Sam Melia, undoubtedly a Nazi sympathiser and white nationalist, but whose crime was posting stickers that read 'white lives matter' and 'reject white guilt'.

I very much doubt the Danczuk case is in the backlog. People use charged and prosecuted interchangeably and I very much expect that the accused hasn't been charged with any offence given the last we heard was that he'd been released without charge.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
It’s as two tier as you would be if the cases were reversed. You wouldn’t mention it at all.
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Not at all. There shouldn't be any racism, classism, politics, or inequality in justice. If these were Asian men being locked up for their beliefs instead of white working class people then I'd have just as much of an issue.
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
Not in the way that you think. The IOPC may just as well as drop the I from their name. They will be bending over backwards to try to push criminal charges in respect of the police officers involved in the violent disorder at the airport.
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Quite possibly and another reason why I struggle to understand why the police are enforcing the political ideology of the authoritarians who control a lot of the country's major institutions rather than simply enforcing the law.

The IOPC/CPS/government think of the police as useful idiots and any opportunity to throw them under the bus like in the Chris Kaba case, they will do.
 
KDB Fan said:
I would argue he is intending to incite racial hatred by using racially hateful language, and it doesn't matter if it's Reform candidates, if you use a racial slur to describe a group of black accountants and threaten one of them with murder for example, you can't hide behind the defence of 'it was aimed at accountants'. He distributed the material online so he quite clearly meets the requirements for the offence. Especially when you take account of how flexible the courts have been in interpreting the offence previously e.g. Sam Melia, undoubtedly a Nazi sympathiser and white nationalist, but whose crime was posting stickers that read 'white lives matter' and 'reject white guilt'.

I very much doubt the Danczuk case is in the backlog. People use charged and prosecuted interchangeably and I very much expect that the accused hasn't been charged with any offence given the last we heard was that he'd been released without charge.
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Well your argument isn’t one that anyone could rationally agree with. In no way in that video is it intending to incite violence against white people as a collective. If it was, you'd have thousands being arrested for it daily on social media.

I find it more than a little concerning your downplaying other peoples actions to try and prove your point and it seems to me you’re googling on the cuff to try and find counter arguments that aren’t comparable, which is why you used an article that subsequently the paper had to apologies for and now Melia, where police found a lot more than stickers that just said that that he was selling and planning to distribute.

On your last point, where has it ever been mentioned he was released without charge? If that was the case, why is Danczuk asking why he hasn’t been prosecuted yet? I know he’s a moron, but not that big a one surely?!
 
meltonblue said:
Well your argument isn’t one that anyone could rationally agree with. In no way in that video is it intending to incite violence against white people as a collective. If it was, you'd have thousands being arrested for it daily on social media.

I find it more than a little concerning your downplaying other peoples actions to try and prove your point and it seems to me you’re googling on the cuff to try and find counter arguments that aren’t comparable, which is why you used an article that subsequently the paper had to apologies for and now Melia, where police found a lot more than stickers that just said that that he was selling and planning to distribute.

On your last point, where has it ever been mentioned he was released without charge? If that was the case, why is Danczuk asking why he hasn’t been prosecuted yet? I know he’s a moron, but not that big a one surely?!
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How many videos do you see of death threats accompanied by racial slurs...thousands every day? I highly doubt it. The law sets a very low bar for what incitement is judging by previous cases so if that precedent was applied equally, he'd almost certainly be found guilty of the offence.

As for the Melia case, I bring it up because you asked me in relation to the Danczuk case, 'where was the instruction?'. I'll put the same question to you to the Melia case. Or rather make the point to save you the time, there was no instruction yet the defendant was still found guilty of incitement of racial hatred.

Which begs the question, why has this man not been charged with not just incitement to racial hatred but any criminal offence?

I haven't seen a single article saying this man has been charged for a high-profile death threat (as a minimum) to a candidate for Parliament. That is either a failure of journalism or a failure of justice. If it's the latter, do you agree we have a big problem with the justice system in our country?
 
KDB Fan said:
How many videos do you see of death threats accompanied by racial slurs...thousands every day? I highly doubt it. The law sets a very low bar for what incitement is judging by previous cases so if that precedent was applied equally, he'd almost certainly be found guilty of the offence.

As for the Melia case, I bring it up because you asked me in relation to the Danczuk case, 'where was the instruction?'. I'll put the same question to you to the Melia case. Or rather make the point to save you the time, there was no instruction yet the defendant was still found guilty of incitement of racial hatred.

Which begs the question, why has this man not been charged with not just incitement to racial hatred but any criminal offence?

I haven't seen a single article saying this man has been charged for a high-profile death threat (as a minimum) to a candidate for Parliament. That is either a failure of journalism or a failure of justice. If it's the latter, do you agree we have a big problem with the justice system in our country?
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How many racial slurs do I see? A significant amount and far worse than what he says in that video and referencing a wider audience than that one. How many death threats? Very few. He was arrested for the death threat.

Which previous cases are you referring to for intending to incite racial hatred that means you think he should be found guilty for that? Do you not find it telling that a reform U.K. candidate hasn’t once raised that he thinks it should be classed as inciting racial hatred? Both him and Tice have only focussed on the death threat.

As for Melia, here’s what he was found guilty of -

“On 24 January at Leeds Crown Court, Melia was found guilty of intending to stir up racial hatred through the distribution of the stickers and encouraging racially aggravated criminal damage.“

The stickers that were found in his room went a lot further than “white lives matter”, why would you downplay it?

On your last point, yes, we’ve got a huge problem with the justice system. Ask any judge or barrister and they’d say the exact same thing - our prisons are full and we’ve got a court backlog stretching into the tens of thousands.
 
meltonblue said:
How many racial slurs do I see? A significant amount and far worse than what he says in that video and referencing a wider audience than that one. How many death threats? Very few. He was arrested for the death threat.

Which previous cases are you referring to for intending to incite racial hatred that means you think he should be found guilty for that? Do you not find it telling that a reform U.K. candidate hasn’t once raised that he thinks it should be classed as inciting racial hatred? Both him and Tice have only focussed on the death threat.

As for Melia, here’s what he was found guilty of -

“On 24 January at Leeds Crown Court, Melia was found guilty of intending to stir up racial hatred through the distribution of the stickers and encouraging racially aggravated criminal damage.“

The stickers that were found in his room went a lot further than “white lives matter”, why would you downplay it?

On your last point, yes, we’ve got a huge problem with the justice system. Ask any judge or barrister and they’d say the exact same thing - our prisons are full and we’ve got a court backlog stretching into the tens of thousands.
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He should have been arrested and convicted for both.

As for Melia, I'm told you why I've used it as an example...to show you how low the bar is set for 'incitement of racial hatred'. If you're talking about the poster he had of Hitler on his private wall, the laws specifically exempts that because it's not deemed to be 'distributing' material.

'An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the written material is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and are not heard or seen except by other persons in that or another dwelling'
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However much of a scumbag Melia is/was, the stuff that was in the public domain was extremely innocuous and totally incomparable to a death threat accompanied by a slur against a race. It's astonishing that he got sent to 2 years in prison for it but the other guy hasn't been charged with anything.

In response to your answer, do you think the backlog in the justice system is a reason to not even bother prosecuting someone for sending death threats and racial hatred?
 
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